The Horse Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

What to do with 4 yo abused bucking bronco?

9K views 73 replies 25 participants last post by  kevinshorses 
#1 ·
Hi All:
My neighbor bought a beautiful 18H abused 4 yo gelding, turned him out with daily feeding and training and handling for 6 months, had him in training for 2 months with a very lightweight trainer, no problems, well behaved, then he comes back & bucks and spins every time someone gets on, including the trainer. Trainer didn't fall off, but most people would. What to do? Not a horse for my neighbor, can't sell him or donate to a school. He is afraid of everything, movement, people, loud noises, probably badly beaten, then allowed to bully children (he's not afraid of children) so he's both a scaredy horse and a bully. Spins and kicks or pushes/pulls. Doesn't bite, gets along w/other horses. Very handsom, smart, nimble, can do 1 tempi changes on his own. Probably draft/TB. I can't keep him, too many horses already, plus don't want to get hurt.

Any suggestions other than auction/sell would be welcome. What kind of person would want such a horse, handsome and troubled as he is?
Thanks,
Star
 
#3 ·
Have they done a complete physical and blood panel workup on this animal? That would be the first place I'd start, to see if maybe he has some physical issue that makes riding painful for him.

If that turns out not to be the case and he's just a nut, unless they can give him to someone who is willing to take on a troubled, aggressive horse as a project, their best bet is to have him euthanised.

There are plenty of safe, sound, sane horses out there. Nobody needs to endanger themselves by trying to deal with this animal.
 
#4 ·
Yes, he's had a complete physical. No problems. Same saddle as before, same bridle. Just too hard to handle after the abuse & too big. Any other ideas? Not a lot of $$ for retraining. Plan to advertise & do a throrough reference check if prospective owner is found; put him down if no owners found. Might be a good candidate for a prison ministry if we can find one, since it will probably take a very long time to tame him.
 
#5 ·
I agree with Speedracer about the physical, not so much about the euthanization. They could give him to a reputable rescue. A rescue could be able to sort out his problems as they deal with abused horses on a daily basis. If they don't want to give him up and dont want to pay for training a pasture ornament is allways an option as long as they can keep him under control on the ground. If they are willing to spend the money then they could keep trying diffrent trainers. Maybe even "natural horsemanship". They just have to keep trying until they figure out how he works.
 
#6 ·
Lonestar, rescues are not dumping grounds for crazy, old, or unsound horses.

I don't understand why so many people say, "Give it to a rescue!" as if they're just dying for everyone's cast offs.

Besides that, most reputable rescues are already full to bursting right now, and don't have the ability to take on a horse that nobody else wants.

If the animal's current owners don't want to be bothered with him and a suitable home can't be found, there's no reason the horse shouldn't be euthed.

They knowingly took on an abused animal, so it's their responsibility to either find the right situation or put him down.

I'm one of those people who believe in personal responsibility and taking care of my own messes. I don't try to fob them off onto someone else.
 
#7 ·
Poor guy, what a sad case! I don't know about elsewhere in the country where land/board is much cheaper but rescues out here generally don't have the money and resources to deal with these sorts of horses. It seems like that would be the point of a rescue... but from my limited experience it seems like they mainly focus on taking new horses that can be turned around to find good homes. The more money and time and space a horse drains from a rescue the fewer horses they can help, especially when most of their money goes into medical rehabilitation and care.

If he's very good looking (unusually so) I bet you could find someone who could take him on as a project. Generally I would think there would have to be something unique / special about him to make him stand out from the other horses that need someone to put time/training/money into them as a project that are less dangerous.

Did you say he did very very well sent away to training and then became dangerous when he came back? Maybe just getting him out of that environment and somewhere else could turn him around and make his training easier?
 
#8 ·
I know it's not a dumping ground. But I think that death should be the last option. The poster said that the horse was well behaved at the trainers, but crazy at their house. Maybe its a comfort thing. I do think a rescue would be a better option than death. But thats just my opinion.
 
#10 ·
I went through something very similar with my 16.2hh saddlebred. He was horribly abused, dangerous, and afraid of everything. He originally came to me as a retrain, but we bonded and i couldn't let him go once he established some trust in me. I'm willing to bet he can be rehabbed, but it would HAVE to be with someone knowledgeable and it will take time and lots of it. And obviously he will cope better in a forever home, selling him off to someone new might trigger a relapse. Best bet, find someone that knows their stuff to take him on.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I also believe death should be the very last option, but it should never be ruled out completely just because some people are squeamish.

If I had a dangerous horse I'd never be able to get rid of it, because I'd feel responsible if I let someone else take it and they got hurt or killed.

People like to put their fingers in their ears and go, "Lalalalala! I can't hear you!" when someone mentions euthing a dangerous or crippled animal. They'd rather bury their heads in the sand and try to get someone else to take on what is ultimately their responsibility.

I don't believe in doing that; I never have. If it's my mess I'll take care of the clean up, whatever that entails.

Some horses are just not fixable. It's nobody's fault, it just is. More people need to realize this.

Death is not a scary bugaboo. It happens to all of us, and sometimes unfortunately, it happens sooner rather than later.
 
#12 ·
.

Some horses are just not fixable. It's nobody's fault, it just is.
I agree. While I think that euth should be the last option, it should still be an option. Some horses never come back from abuse. If he is dangerous on the ground and under saddle and his only redeeming quality is his looks, its time to call the vet. Handing off a problem horse onto someone else isn't very smart. We took in a horse at the rescue who was bat-sh*t crazy. Would attack people, dogs, other horses. We were told 'if you can get past that, hes a great ride'...if you never encounter other horses, people or dogs on your trails. After some time invested in him, he had to be put down. We could have moved him on to someone else. Im sure there are people who think he could have been 'fixed' but truth be told, someone would have gotten killed. Euth isn't always the sexiest option, but sometimes its the best
 
#13 · (Edited)
I'm not against euthing a horse that in no way can be rehabed. i work at a vet clinic where people have brought in animals to be put down simply becuase they dont want them anymore. We try and get them to sign the animals over to us as much as possible but we still have those who wont. But this horse could have a chance if you can find a way to make it click to him that "hey this isnt so bad after all" I wouldnt let it go to someone who didnt understand the responsibility they were taking on. But he still needs to be givin a chance.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Yes, some people do want animals euthed because they no longer want them.

Would you rather they abandon them, hoping some kind soul will find and feed them? Dogs and cats like that either get hit by cars, or are eaten by wild predators. Very few actually find someone to take them in.

So even though you don't like the idea, at least these people are responsible enough to bring the animal in to be euthed, instead of just throwing them out of the car on some lonely back road.

I've had emaciated dogs and sick cats show up at my place time and time again, because I'm out in the country and their moronic owners thought they'd give the animals 'a chance' at finding a farm home.

I have a different spin on things, having seen far too often what people do to get out of something they're too cowardly to have done.
 
#15 ·
Thank you for your opinions. I'd rather not put the horse down either, since he has come so far in 8 months. I don't have time to work with him, though.

Yes, the horse in my view is unusually handsome - 18H TB/Draft cross, well proportioned, tobiano - black w/4 white stockings and a white blanket over his shoulders. Also very sweet when being groomed or talked to, shews and licks his lips like he's really listening, follows you around the paddock, comes when called - if he feels like it.

He's also stubborn, a bully, and a bucking bronco! I still have a big bump on my leg 4 months later from where he kicked me because I didn't let go of him on the leadline when he felt like charging off - he runs past you straight ahead & kicks out on the way by, very quick. Could have broken my arm if he had gotten a little higher. Or if you are touching him on the side when he's not tied & he decides he doesn't like it (after calmly accepting the touch), he can wheel and kick out. I think he could hurt someone on the ground and in the saddle. Some of the wheeling is from being super sensitive and startled, but some is just plain irritation, I think.

He can't stay a pasture ornament - no room or $ or will.
Star
 
#16 ·
Could they sell him to a rodeo ground or something? to be a bucking bronco again?
just get a trainer to handle his ground manners (might take a lot) then sell him to a rodeo ground?

I think a lot of bucking broncos have a great life... buck the cowboy off, go home, get fed, hang with your buddies, buck a few more cowboys into the dirt.lol. as long as its not an abusing rodeo, then i think he would like it.
 
#17 · (Edited)
I agree with ridergirl23. Why not get in touch with a rodeo stock contactor and see if they would be willing to buck him with the test dummy? Most rodeo contractors want big horses like yours-they arent easy to find. I would almost guarantee they'd show some interest. Does your horse haul in the trailer? Sounds to me like he's a little "bipolar" but that really wouldnt matter in this case. He wont be getting handled a great deal (lead line, etc) so this may be a good fit for him. Research the local stock contractors in your area and get in touch with them. Its really NOT an abusive world, rodeo. He'd be getting food, shelter, and medical care when needed. He may just be a good buckin horse!

Good luck with whatever you decide!


ETA: You said the vet check was clean, so if there's no medical reason for him bucking then great (as far as rodeo goes)...This means that it would be safe to buck him for rodeos-he wouldnt be in any danger/trouble.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Ah rodeos. :S :S :S :S :S :S I've seen way to many exposes about them and even the big expensive corporate sponsored fancy rodeos make me cringe. Encouraging horses/bulls to buck and be dangerous through abuse or electric prods or devices that make them seriously comfortable bother me.

Plus, a panicked, terrified unwieldy horse can hurt itself very easily and they do! Thats not a life I would want to send any animal to. I don't care what people say - those bucking horses are not HAPPY or they wouldn't be behaving that way.

Edit: Frankly, I am horrified that anyone would want to capitalize on the abuse this horse has suffered. It's been stated the horse was ABUSED and this is why it bucks. Oh great, lets abuse it some more and make it re-live the trauma for entertainment! A horse bucking because it was abused and mistreated (as the OP has said) should not be exploited to make a bunch of "cowboys" look brave by making the issue worse.
 
#19 ·
excuse me? you have been watching to many PETA videos on youtube.
you know why they buck? SEE THAT BUCKING STRAP ON THEIR FLANKS? ya, you know, the one with SHEEPSKIN. ya, thats why they buck, NOT prods or anything. so DO NOT tell me they are abused. YES, there is some abuse in SOME rodeos... but tell me what discipline you ride in... I can show you some abuse in that too, AND i can make it seem like the most horrible thing in the world... THATS what PETA does. so DO NOT tell ME rodeos abuse their horses.

im sorry, but it makes me SOOOOOO mad when people pinpoint ONE discipline or sport and call it abuse when they watch PETA videos. Ive SEEN REAL abuse.

edit: A LOT of those horses DO like to buck. some of them dont even use bucking straps because they ENJOY it, ever seen a horse buck and play in the feild? ya, a lot of the horses like to do that.
 
#20 ·
that may be true, ridergirl. yes there is some abuse in all disciplines, but i think the main point is that this is a fearful abused horse and the hustle and bustle of even a humane rodeo is no place for an animal like that. it would likely push him over the edge.
 
#22 ·
I don't think he would enjoy a rodeo at all. He is still afraid of everything and a rodeo would probably blow his mind. If I didn't have too many horses I'd keep him myself, and might just keep him anyway if I can't find a brave, talented, and patient person who wants to work with him. I've just played with him on the ground a little, not really tried to get on him. He got along great with the trainer at her place, and never gave her a bit of trouble. I agree that he can't just go off with someone unsuspecting or ignorant. He does load (with some difficulty).

I think a prison retraining program would be good since they have so much time on their hands. Anyone know of any in the Mid-Atlantic region?

When you compare this horse with the Romainian stallion, he's not at all as bad on the ground...usually handles fine; just pitched several bucking fits when he got home, and we havent' tried him since.

Thanks,
Star
 
#24 ·
if he was fine at the trainers... I would guess it would be handlers fault? im not pointing fingers or anything, but if hes fine with the trainer, but is not good with his owners.... wouldnt it be the handler doing something wrong?
 
#23 ·
I have seen horses and bulls be let out of the chute with no rider no strap no halter no NOTHING. And they buck like crazy! I have been to big rodeos, small rodeos, rodeos that were rigged up in crappy arenas and I have never seen abuse. One rodeo I went to was in the ****tiest arena I had seen in my life. They had about 10 bulls and one bronc. There was only one guy who rode broncs and after his ride the horses owner walked into the arena, haltered his horse and walked him through the crowd and back to his trailer where he sat a kid on him. The horse did nothing. But in the arena his job was to buck and he did. I have never seen an animal get majorly hurt at a rodeo. And I go to ALOT of rodeos.
 
#25 ·
About the handling; it's not normal for a horse to have a bucking bronco fit. I definitely think this horse is not right for his owner, but fault? It's the fault of whoever beat him up, then of whoever taught him to buck, and those people have yet to be ID'ed...my neighbor got him from a gal who buys horses at auction - New Holland in PA - & flips them. So she got this horse at auction & couldn't sell him (until my neighbor came along and fell in love w/his looks, even though we could barely handle him, and couldn't catch him at home for several weeks!).
 
#26 ·
Im just wondering, if he was fine at the trainers, maybe the handlers are doing something to set him off?

it just sounds weird that he was fine at the trainers but has fits at home... it just makes me think maybe they handle him somehow that set him off?
 
#27 ·
His problem lies in his insecurities, or "bulliness". His coping mechanism is to buck and bolt. The extreme measures of fight and flight that he is exhibiting are showing how mentally unstable he is at the moment. That is what needs to be addressed, the mental state.

I have retrained horses like this as well as horses that went through the bucking string of rodeos. The rodeos are hard on the horses body, but what discipline isn't?

I also work at a rescue. There are 2 people at this rescue of hundreds of volunteers that would even be capable of handling a horse like you describe, myself being one of those people. The majority of the people at rescues are the nicest people you will meet, but many of them are bleeding hearts. We do end up getting some pretty extreme crazies in, which usually results in me or the other person being the sole handlers of those horses for a long time.

Even working at a rescue and having retrained some pretty monster cases before, I am not against euthanization. Many of the horses that get to me have a laundry list of homes that they've been run through and people that they have hurt. I have turned some pretty extreme cases into schooling horses, but I know for a fact that these horses would revert to their old ways if they had a lapse of leadership over a long period of time.

I often see horses in a distressed state of mind. This often makes me think along the lines that there are worse things in life than death. Very few people have the presence to change an extreme horse anymore, and the fact that these horses are then essentially left the only option to be live their life in fear, always on the defensive, is that any way to live?

If you can find someone that can handle him, then give him to them. Sadly these horses are usually the best mounts, since they have the mind to know when to say "no" to a bad deal. Unfortunately, when I travel from barn to barn, I see that there are far more bad deals out there than good deals when interpretted to the eyes of a horse.
 
#28 ·
So, given that he's been with me & my neighbor for 6 months and at the trainer for 2 months, and is still in quite a state, how long do you think it would take him to get over it? Probably can't even hazard a guess. I think he is afraid of his owner, more so than of me, but he's bad with me too when he doesn't want to do something, like move over or stop or be led in a different direction than he wants to go.
 
#29 ·
I just re-read your post. Hmmm...2 out of 100's. I'll be looking for a long time! Ask around at rescues for experienced handlers? This horse is so beautiful and lovable (when he's not causing harm!) that someone should want him, just not to ride for a while. Funny that he gave the trainer no trouble. But she has a very quiet stable, no visitors, just her & her kids and a very calm manner. My neighbor is not mean, just a little brusk.
 
#31 ·
All animal advocate organizations are against everything to do with rodeos, dog shows, cat shows, bird shows, racing, jumping,fishing, etc. They think any animal that doesn't just sit around all day is being forced into slavery... Sorry, don't buy your story about animal advocates, that's just another run off from PETA>
To the original OP, you state the horse is lovable and easy to handle, as long as you don't touch him in the wrong spot when he has decided he no longer likes it, don't ask him to lead where he doesn't want to go, don't ask him to be ridden, etc.... This is not a stable horse, this is a horse that will kick out one of these days and hit somebody in the head and kill them. He will run someone over and kill them. If he knows enough to kick out when he is pulling away from you, if he knows enough to kick out when he no longer wants to be touched or groomed, he is smart enough to know the person will walk away. Same story, just different excuses.
Once an animal, any animal learns it can scare away the person doing what it doesn't want to do, it will continue doing it. Anyway you look at it, he is dangerous because you will never know what sets him off. Sure there might be someone willing to take him on, but I would make sure the person getting the horse from your friends signs paperwork stating they KNOW the horse will kick, run over you, buck you off, etc. Otherwise the new owner could come back and sue the neighbor. I had a friend sell a beautiful registered QH mare bred back with a foal at her side. The new owner was told at the time and signed a paper stating the horse was for breeding purposes only, she was not to be ridden, period, that she was unridable. My friend did this for his safety.. Guess what, the new owner decided she knew more about this mare than the original owner, tried to ride her and got hurt very very badly. She lived, but immediatley tried to sue the original owner stating she was not told the mare was unridable. The old owner had the signed paperwork and the lawsuit failed.
I would make sure if the neighbor signs the horse over to anyone, rescue, rodeo, prison, etc that they make sure the horse is sold as dangerous to ride and handle.
To me, the horse should be euthanized before it kills someone, it will happen since he sounds like a ticking time bomb.
Just not worth the risk.
 
#32 ·
Um, not ALL animal advocate groups are against rodeos. Our rescue doesn't abhor rodeo- as long as the animals are treated humanely.

OP, as a rescue person myself- I would ask you to please consider euthanizing this horse. Why? Because the more a rescue spends time and money on one horse saving it, that is that much we take away from a healthy, sane horse that just needs some groceries and love.

There are over 100,000 horses each year shipped to Canada and Mexico (that we can document, I am sure there are more!) that get cut up and put into little cans. We are working to help as many as possible avoid that fate. We do pull the ones we know we can save, turn around and place in a new home as fast as possible. Its like any business- and yes, rescue is a business. Only we have an overwhelming supply, and not enough demand.

Someone once said, here is a 5 gallon bucket, a one cup measuring cup, and a garden hose. First put the hose in the bucket, and using the cup bail the water out. You can do it for a while, but then after a bit the hose gets ahead of you, the bucket starts to overflow, and you exhaust yourself trying to bail the bucket out.

This is the reality of rescue. There are simply TOO MANY good horses for us to "waste" our time and resources trying to save one aggressive or unadoptable animal.

I am so sorry. I am sure he is a beautiful boy. Frankly, they all are.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top