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what do yall do?

This is a discussion on what do yall do? within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

     
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        11-27-2010, 07:49 PM
      #21
    Foal
    I don't like them to get nippy because that's just another bad habit I have to get rid of but I tried something else instead that worked. I essentially made it her idea to come to me. I stood behind her and when she took a step I took a step towards her shoulder then she returned to her original position and I returned to my position then she just got tired of it and came to me
         
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        11-27-2010, 08:06 PM
      #22
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Silvera    
    If you don't allow nipping and give them heck for it then they don't become nippy. The only time they become nippy is if you allow it.
    Well said! People commonly blame treats for 'making' a horse nippy, because they just don't realise they have inadvertently trained the horse to be that way - allowed & reinforced the behaviour. I think this is because people don't tend to appreciate the principles of timing & association - horses are such 'of the moment' creatures and whatever is happening at the time of reinforcement(or punishment) is influenced by it.

    While I'm not dead against punishment at all & depending on the circumstances, wouldn't necessarily be adverse to a smack in the chops for nipping, I tend not to bother with punishing mistakes. It is generally enough to just make sure 'rude' behaviour is never reinforced. Especially if you also teach behaviours in contrast to the 'rudeness' - eg. Teach the horse to take a step back & tuck his nose in & he can't be doing that & snatching or mugging at the same time.

    And then even if you do punish a behaviour, but it works for the horse - eg. He snatches & gains a treat with his teeth & get's whopped for it - that punishment's not likely to be all that effective anyway. Depending on the horse's motivation for the treat & for avoiding the punishment, and also their personality. Eg. IME some horses would put up with all sorts in order to gain the smallest Good Thing.

    Quote:
    i lure them to the stalls with sweet feed and give them a cup or two
    ...And because I am a hcp & realise that sweet & starchy feeds are such a common cause of health & soundness issues, I have to say:roll: that it is well worth considering healthy alternatives wherever possible. Or at least give it in very small quantities - just as you'd only give a lolly or 2 as a treat to a child rather than giving them a whole bag, give your horses a pinch or a small handful only if you're feeding junk food. For those who use treats in training - so they may only get a pinch at a time, but get heaps over each session - I think it's important to choose healthy options. Eg. I generally use their sugar/grain free ration balancer as treats for my horses.
         
        11-27-2010, 11:11 PM
      #23
    Yearling
    I'm quite offended by people who say the reason that they're not being caught is because they're worked too hard and that they are "slaves." That is an over generalization.

    I spent four years chasing my horse in the field. Most of the times I went out to visit her, all I would do is sit in the grass and read a book while letting her graze at the end of a lead line. - If I ride (only in mild weather because I'm a wimp in the heat and cold) I work her for 20, Maybe 30 minutes. 3, Maybe 4 days a week. - She certainly was not worked hard or Ever treated badly. She just simply chose not to come to me.
    I would have to run her until she were literally dripping sweat before she'd even consider letting herself be caught. After 4 years of this, she finally comes to me every time.
    She still refuses to be caught by anyone but me. And no one other than me has Ever ridden/worked her since I've owned her. - She's not afraid. She'll let a person come up to her, but you pick up a halter, and she takes off running. (they let her get away with it,.. because they don't have the time to deal with it.)

    She would just rather be out than be in the company of people.
    No amount of bribery will work. She will NOTcome.
         
        11-28-2010, 05:44 PM
      #24
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by faye    
    bribary worked for 10years with stan,
    So far for 15 years with pride, 18 with harvey and 12 years with Rian. Hmm I think i'm pretty safe in saying that bribery can and does work. It only stops working when you start using treats all the time or when you reward bad behavior.
    I didn't say it couldn't work, just that it doesn't tend to work for too long. Horses know the difference between bribery & reward. But I should have explained further. Firstly I was thinking if that's all you do, it's not generally effective for long. Also I think a lot of the difference is also in the intent(bribery can be thought of as sneaky & people may have sneaky 'not to be trusted' bodylanguage). Also what you do immediately after you catch them is far more important & I'm betting that if it works for you, you aren't one of those people who catch your horse & then go straight to 'work' & unpleasantness with them either.
         
        11-28-2010, 06:12 PM
      #25
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Reiterin    
    I'm quite offended by people who say the reason that they're not being caught is because they're worked too hard and that they are "slaves." That is an over generalization.
    I'm confused. You don't seem to have participated in this discussion(unless you have another alias), so I don't get your offense in the first place??

    I can't speak for others(tho many seem to be on the same page) but my opinion about 'working' horses & comparing 'slavery' is not about 'too much' work, but that it's *perceived by the animal as work* at all, and it seems to surprise & offend people(they complain of 'lack of respect' from the horse, talk about 'naughtiness', etc) that the horse doesn't want to work. They also expect that he *should* ('respectfully') submit to work, even in the absence of payment, which is the bit that can be compared to slavery IMO. I mean, how many humans would be happy & willing to work at something unpleasant & unnecessary without reward?? Of course if it were the easier option in order to avoid punishment(slavery) we may submit(but how many would respect the slave driver??). Why on earth do we expect horses to do that willingly then??

    I just believe in ensuring there are *worthwhile* rewards for any 'work' or unpleasantness, and striving to make what I see as fun for me with horses as fun for them too - I make a point of it being *play* not *work* for my horses, so they *want* to do what I ask them.

    Quote:
    I spent four years chasing my horse in the field. ...I would have to run her until she were literally dripping sweat before she'd even consider letting herself be caught.
    Have you considered that perhaps it was *because* you were always chasing her that she was always running away? Have you considered that perhaps that method was not very effective, that's why you were still doing it for 4 years? I personally would have changed tack, probably after 4 days or weeks at most, tried a different approach if that one wasn't working. ...Altho bet you & she both got fit in the process!

    Quote:
    I work her for 20, Maybe 30 minutes. 3, Maybe 4 days a week. - She certainly was not worked hard or Ever treated badly. She just simply chose not to come to me.
    You miss the point it seems. It's not about how 'hard' or long you may work them, it's that you Work them. It's not that you treat them bad in your eyes, it's *their* perception of what's going on that's important. If she chose not to come, it may not even be that she thought you were treating her bad, just that hanging out with you maybe just wasn't that good. And to be fair, these aloof prey animals can indeed be hard to please sometimes. The point is that if you want your horse to come choose to be with you *willingly*, you have to make yourself more attractive than hanging out with mates, eating, relaxing, etc.
         

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