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what do you do with a horse that DOES NOT want you on its back

This is a discussion on what do you do with a horse that DOES NOT want you on its back within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        04-30-2012, 08:23 PM
      #11
    Weanling
    I like Holistic Horse Works, this video gives an overview of good diagnostic tools you can do on your own if there are any structural issues which may be the cause:

    https://www.youtube.com/user/HolisticHorseWorks#g/u
    Foxhunter likes this.
         
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        04-30-2012, 09:17 PM
      #12
    Trained
    If no pain, either find her a different job (harness, someone suggested?), throw her out in a paddock as a companion, or put her in a can. Sounds like she's got a screw loose. I wouldn't be getting on a horse like that, as soon as they go up or run stupidly backwards, I won't touch it. Too dangerous. She can end up killing someone, and I wouldn't want my name attached to it.
    MN Tigerstripes and Cherie like this.
         
        04-30-2012, 09:58 PM
      #13
    Weanling
    Kayty, to quote you: "If no pain, either find her a different job (harness, someone suggested?), throw her out in a paddock as a companion, or put her in a can. Sounds like she's got a screw loose. I wouldn't be getting on a horse like that, as soon as they go up or run stupidly backwards, I won't touch it. Too dangerous. She can end up killing someone, and I wouldn't want my name attached to it."


    The horse likely got a "screw loose" due to an issue which never had anything to do with the horse's inherent nature but got there by means of human interaction and involvement. This is not a criticism of the current owners, or of anyone in particular because "we" don't know the cause. Maybe it will be found, and I hope so for the sake of horse and owner.

    I come from the viewpoint that we are fully responsible for the fact that (a) we've domesticated an animal and have induced upon that animal countless unnatural and contradictory behaviors, lifestyles, diets, environments, and so forth. I am vehemently against horse slaughter, that is my personal stance, and something I would never consider as a humane option, regardless of how dangerous a horse is or may be. No horse is an "it" to me, and I attach my name to every horse I have cared for, along with the inherent responsibility I have to that horse, mistakes and all. I could never punish a horse with threatening to put him/her on a meat hook.
         
        04-30-2012, 10:07 PM
      #14
    Trained
    And I respect your opinion on that. Yes, most horses with a 'screw loose' are caused by human error. However, when they get to the point of running riders into walls, running backwards, rearing and sitting under saddle. Then that is beyond the point of what an average rider/trainer should be dealing with. The horse has no idea if it's being punished. Get a vet or a bullet to put it down, it has absolutely no idea what so ever. Horses don't think about their future potential, just as they don't associate not being fed one night after a bad ride as punishment. They are standing happy one second, and gone the next.
    Personally, I find it crueller on a horse to keep pushing and allowing it to perform this dangerous behaviour under saddle, that is not only dangerous to humans, but to itself. If you don't have anywhere, or don't have the funds, to keep such a horse in a paddock with a herd for the rest of its life, I stand by the opinion that putting it down is a far more dignified way to respect that animal.
         
        04-30-2012, 10:19 PM
      #15
    Green Broke
    I gave mine away after paying obscene amounts of $$$ to multiple trainers who all verified the same thing. Perfectly happy, content horse if all you wanted to do was nose to tail, slow walking, trail ride. Anything else and she'd make it really darn clear that she wasn't happy.

    She's one fat, happy, trail horse now. Current owner had her "issues" explained in detail so she wouldn't attempt to ride her in an arena or go for a gallop in the fields and she was thrilled that her nose to tail trail ride operation gained a horse that loves to be in the back and pack nervous nellie riders down the trail.

    What I wanted? No. Reality is though, she's happy and loves where she is so I'm happy.
         
        04-30-2012, 10:22 PM
      #16
    Green Broke
    IF this is pain related, and that is big if, but needs to be checked out, someone, even a vet merely looking at horse is not going to tell you what is going on, unless x-rays and more intensive diagnostic tests are done.

    For instance? Broken ribs, broken withers process, broken vertebrae, peritonitis, deep seated abscesses in muscles, internal problems, (saw gelding one time that had testicle lying right under spinal column for instance) mare could have ovary problems similar to that.

    Teeth abscessed, broken jaw, broken bars, broken teeth?

    All of these things are not going to be easily notice, by merely a cursory inspection.

    Behavior problems are whole other ball of wax. This mare could be doing all of this because has learned she can, and get out of being ridden.

    If you are using same saddle each time? Could be something wrong with it too, and not just too narrow, but underneath the leather. I've seen saddles that had nails/screws/wood pieces work loose, or gotten in there, and were poking horse when rider added weight to saddle. Turn saddle upside down and press with all your weight on underside of saddle, moving hands slowly while you do so, to make sure nothing is wrong with inside of saddle. Do the same with saddle blanket. Have seen sewing needle tip come out of one blanket years ago, must have broke off from machine when stitching, but there it was. Had forgotten all about that until just now.

    What breed is this horse, she sounds an awful lot like the Tri Jet mares/fillies, that are TB. Real heifers to deal with.

    More tests are in order here.
         
        04-30-2012, 10:25 PM
      #17
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kayty    
    Personally, I find it crueller on a horse to keep pushing and allowing it to perform this dangerous behaviour under saddle, that is not only dangerous to humans, but to itself. If you don't have anywhere, or don't have the funds, to keep such a horse in a paddock with a herd for the rest of its life, I stand by the opinion that putting it down is a far more dignified way to respect that animal.
    I agree.

    OP, just be careful. Switching her job isn't the end of the world. She could be the greatest cart horse ever.

    Sometimes I think we're too stubborn to win these battles.. that both end up hurting in the end.

    Your call, just be safe.
         
        04-30-2012, 10:32 PM
      #18
    Trained
    What does the horse do when someone leads her from the ground with another person on her back? Ever tried it?
    iridehorses, natisha and DRichmond like this.
         
        05-01-2012, 05:09 PM
      #19
    Super Moderator
    I have, in my time had two or three horses that behaved like this or in a similar way. All were mares.

    One I was asked to help the owners daughter break. Immediately I worked it I said that someone had started this horse and there would be problems. This was denied, they had bought her from a dealer 'friend' and she was only halter broken.
    When it came time to actually mounting her she would just flip straight over or throw herself on the ground. When she was down, if you got on her she would buck like a top bronc.

    I tell you, she was something special! I had done all the ground work (which she already knew) and the idiot owners decided to back her when I was away. This worked in my favour as I had her at my place not theirs and found it impossible to even get on her.

    I solved it by taking her to the beach. I had two friends riding big hunters and I sat on one of these with friend. The mare was sandwiched between the two big horses, each friend had a line from the noseband of a lunge caveson. When chest deep in water, I went from the hunter onto her whilst we were doing a slow trot.
    She tried plunging and rearing but the water slowed her right down.
    All was going well until we were on a sandbank and only knee deep = she tried a plunge which took us into deeper water and next thing I knew we were heading out to sea! Neither friend had a hold of a line!
    Nothing I did would make her turn. She just headed straight out to sea. I held on top the neck strap and let her pul me along. She went out over half a mile - we were well beyond the pier which was that length! She then did turn and I was able to get back in the saddle when she hit shallow water.
    She was exhausted but I made her trot through the water and then charged her up and down the sands.
    I was freezing beyond shivering so someone gave me a lift in their car whilst one of the friends rode the mare back to the stables.
    The next day I rode her after leading her out from another horse and lungeing her. She was no problem.
    Monday I took her fox hunting, Tuesday rode her for three hours, Wednesday fox hunting. Thursday ridden for a couple of hours, Friday ridden, Saturday fox hunting. Sunday she jumped a clear round at an indoor show (2'6") and was allowed to have the following Monday off.

    I tell you she lost a lot of weight that week she looked like a toast rack but, it was vital she learned that I was not frightened of her and would not give up.

    She never once was a problem again. Nor was she broken spirited, she would put in the odd buck when she was feeling fit and well but it was never nasty.

    It was much the same with the other problem mares. I would say to most that they are not worth bothering about as they can be plain dangerous unless you have a lot of experience, and have exceedingly experienced people around you to help.

    Oh, the reason the ,are got loose in the sea was because the metal part of the lunge caveson snapped!
         
        05-02-2012, 04:20 AM
      #20
    Weanling
    I was perusing another message board and came upon a wonderful 3 part video of a "crazy" horse being rehabbed by a trainer in Vancouver B.C. I wish the audio and video were a bit better but you can clearly see how the woman is turning this horse's life around:

    Rehab - not just for Rock Stars :)
         

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