What do YOU think of clicker training - Page 3

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What do YOU think of clicker training

This is a discussion on What do YOU think of clicker training within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Clicker training teenagers
  • Clicker training with teenagers

View Poll Results: Do you recommend clicker training?
Yes 23 50.00%
No 23 50.00%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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    07-12-2012, 04:04 AM
Originally Posted by Joe4d
When you give a horse food, he thinks he just punked you and took it away from you. Yes you can establish dominance and then give treats, but nothing sends a bigger message of leadership to a horse faster than making him wait until you are done eating. ....

I see nothing you can do with a clicker I can't do with a couple simple voice commands. ... So I am supposed to train my horse to stand with a click, then phase it out to use something else ? Sounds kinda dumb, why not train him to stand when I say "STAND" from the getgo
With the first point, that it's not natural for a horse to bring another horse a feed, IMO it's not relevant. Re leadership/dominance, I do think that's a relevant consideration, but just don't personally agree with the conclusion. It's like saying that horses aren't born with shoes on, so that means they should all go barefoot in all situations. I think it's a very good idea to first consider natural behaviour & analyse different approaches with this in mind, but at the end of the day, just because something's natural doesn't make it necessarily Right or Best, or vice versa IMO.

Re the second part above, a clicker(or whatever 'bridging signal' you choose to use) is not the cue & doesn't replace a cue. So you would indeed use a cue like stand 'from the get go'. A 'bridging signal' is just something that means "Yes! What you did right then earned you a reward". It's helpful IMO because it 'buys time' between behaviour & reward, as animals learn from instant consequences & find it hard or impossible to relate abstract ideas such as 'this is a reward for what you did before'.

Re what's the point in doing something that you're going to phase out, think about however you reinforce a horse - when you teach something, you may praise(actually a b/s not a reward), give a scratch, negatively reinforce a cue by applying/removing pressure, but you don't keep on doing all that after the horse has learned - eg. You don't praise/reward every little step of a back up, you don't teach the horse to respond to a seat cue & continue to back it up with reinforcement from leg & rein when he's already responding to the seat cue.

Originally Posted by AmazinCaucasian    
We may never win this argument because we're in a room full of women, but you're right. I don't care what they say.
We're not having an argument though, we're having a discussion! I know an awful lot of women that don't understand or agree with c/t either, and a number of men, including zoo keepers & behavioural scientists training wild animals(could you instruct them on a more effective way?), who may just be offended by that comment too.

Each to his own, IMO. I'm just wanting to explain my perspective of where I see opinions based on misunderstandings about the principles.
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    07-12-2012, 04:33 AM
Originally Posted by corymbia    
I no longer use a clicker as the bridge because I kept forgetting it, I use a kiss sound which I can't drop or lose.
That's right - you just reminded me why I stopped using a clicker initially! Another 'con' to using a plastic clicker, but not for using this approach.
    07-12-2012, 04:51 AM
Originally Posted by corymbia    
Without wanting to be overly disrespectful this is a load of tosh.
Glad you included that 'overly'!
    07-12-2012, 04:57 AM
Pros: entirely sound training theory and practice. Works.

Cons: there's a big divide between "believers" and "non-believers" which has resulted in blatantly wrong claims by people trying to defend what are usually preconceived ideas about it. Which adds to peoples misinformation.

I don't do it much because it'd be impractical to carry enough food rewards to last the hours I spend with horses, but in the early days with a new horse I sometimes use food rewards to accelerate learning of the very basics.
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    07-12-2012, 05:24 AM
Originally Posted by christopher    
cons: there's a big divide between "believers" and "non-believers" which has resulted in blatantly wrong claims by people trying to defend what are usually preconceived ideas about it.
Such as you must be a woman??
    07-12-2012, 06:07 AM
I've never used clicker training with horses. Just with dogs and and a bit with goats lol.

Dogs are not horses and horses are not dogs, But both respond to pressure/release and both respond to food rewards.

Even if the old way is "good enough" trying a new way is a great idea. People naturally want to do what's always worked for them, but it might not be the best way in every situation. So I am thankful for those brave people that are willing to try out the crazy ideas like ct :)

I know I can teach my dog to do way more stuff way faster with a clicker or other marker training than I can with traditional methods. And I know that if used properly, treats fed often can make the animal (dog, horse, goats, sheep) more respectful of your space when there is food around.

But I still use pressure/release training with my dog because sometimes treats just aren't going to work as well. And I will always use it with my horse too.

I have a bag of carrots and the day off... I may have to go try ct with the horses!
    07-12-2012, 06:11 AM
One thing I do see though is ct having the potential to create some nasty nippy ponies or horses always looking for food if it's done incorrectly and for that reason I wouldn't recommend it to someone that wasn't already a decent trainer. A beginner might click at the wrong time for the wrong things and not recognize if their horse is being direspectful.
    07-12-2012, 12:23 PM
Originally Posted by EvilHorseOfDoom    
Oh, clicker training teenagers - now THIS would be a revolutionary thing! Actually, get on it, parents would pay heaps to get their problem teenagers sorted
Since I work in a high school, you Know I wish CT worked with them!
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    07-12-2012, 01:21 PM
Originally Posted by tiffanyodonnell    
Since I work in a high school, you Know I wish CT worked with them!
Posted via Mobile Device
And especially for a teen attitude. I click my crabby KMSH for ears forward & eyes forward. Wish I could do that with some of my students!
Posted via Mobile Device
    07-12-2012, 01:51 PM
Green Broke
I think it is busywork for humans, and is a waste of time.

Have I used it, no. Will I ever? NO.

Adds steps to horse handling/training that is simply not necessary.

Had spousal unit that would teach neck reining like so.

Pull rein on one side.

The next week, lay other rein against neck while pull on rein on side turning to.

Next week, lay rein against neck THEN pull rein on side turning to.

Next week, lay, pull, and now add heel pressure.

Next week, lay, pull, heel and calf.

Took months to teach horse what could have been done in one week had the fool ever tried to teach it at once. Moron. And ex spousal unit too.

Horses that I work around in often, can be directed by a simpler voice/hand command. No treats involved, no clicker.

Colossal waste of time, and a money maker for whatever fool came up with it. Just like carrot stick, games, and what have you.
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clicker training, horses, opinon, pros cons, training

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