What is the Pessoa Training aid

ILMH123 - you don't need to make a poll on every thread either ;) Only add one if you genuinely would like to know people's thoughts or opinions on something rather than just putting one up for the sake of it.

It doesn't matter, I just wondered.

Kadeebug, I greatly agree with you Great posts!

I use the Pessoa Training System on Nelson, and it does not see saw his mouth in any form. I use it because his topline is weak and there are days where I cannot get on his back and ride, so I turn to the Pessoa Training System to help.

I was encouraged to buy this system from my Equine Chiro and my Equine Massage Therapist who work on my horse monthly, and depending on the severity of his sessions, I am not permitted to get on his back - so therefore, this system comes in VERY handy for me.

When Nelson works in this "gadgetry" he does soften, he does stretch stretch down and I see the benefits, so does my Chiro and Massage Therapist.

And Nelson is a very schooled horse.

Maybe it's improved from the first variation I saw. No, I have not used it myself, but was interested in buying it at first until I researched it further and saw the action on video. From what I saw, the hind legs activated one set of pulleys that directly or indirectly (can't recall) pulled on the rope attaching to the bit, so with every stride, the mouth was being affected. The action of the hind legs (alternating) made me think see-saw.
I much prefer something simple like my bungee Vienna rein set-up, personally.

If you watch this video:
You see that the hindquarter rigging system is only supported by a pulley, then runs through the bit. Hence every hind leg moving backwards influences the bit.
In this video:
You can see the slack taken up against the bit with the backwards swing of each hind leg.

It may work for some horses, and I'm sure some riders like the system. Personally, I don't use it and won't. That is my personal perogative and my personal feeling and opinion, take from it what you want to :)

I have not seen one used so I don't want to form an opinion until I use one. In that first video posted the hind piece looks to low and does seem to tug a bit on his mouth. If I were to use it I would adjust it a bit higher.. perhaps a foot above the hocks so you wouldn't get a more natural movement (less jerky) of the bit (In theory).

Excellent post Kayty! I don't agree when people throw on a gadget and expect it to be a quick and effective fix without proper training/riding to go with it. But in some cases "gadgets" can be quite helpful. Sure, in a perfect world every rider would work their horse perfectly to get the correct muscle build... but as much as some of my beginner students try, it's simply not going to happen. Maybe someday, but not yet. Does that mean that the horse shouldn't get worked properly? No. The Pessoa system can be a great way to build up correct muscles until they learn to do it themselves.

And MIE had another excellent post. Sometimes it just isn't possible to ride to ride a horse that day. I like the system better then side reins and it's much better then running the horse around a lunge line with nothing. I've seen plenty of horses go quite happily in this rig.

I never said gadgets were bad. I said ropes don't train horses and that is true. You can't expect to throw on a pessoa and have a horse being supple and round when you get on it. The mouth has been see-sawed. I also never said lunging a horse was bad either, but when training a horse to push from behind, into the bit, then riding is what will work. Attaching a rope behind a horse's legs that see-saws on the mouth will only shorten the horse. If you use a gadget, use something simple. Use something that has only one action like vienna reins(like draw reins) or side reins. If the ropes could change lengths as the horse reacted and moved then it would be fine. But when there is a certain length that a horse has to move in, it isn't that good. On the ground you want only direct actions to the horse because there is no rider on its back to change with the horse. If you can't ride the horse and the point is to exercise it or just get it round on the lunge then why do you have to load the horse up with ropes? If you are training a green horse to go on the bit, I personally think it should be done with a rider. If you do want to lunge it, the simpler the gadget is, the better and more comprehensible it is for the horse.

I would just like to thank everyone for all of the information provided. There have been great points made on both sides of the issue. As with any training tool it can be used improperly. As riders we all know that every horse is different and we utilize different tools to get each horse to respond. I personally think that I prefer to have the personal contact that riding the horse provides. Thank you all so much for providing clarification on the Pessoa Training Aide.

I do love that this forum allows us the ability to debate the pros and cons of many different issues. Please keep me updated on any new information that you find on the Pessoa Training Aide.

Im not a fan of devices and gadget and prefer to keep it as simple as possible. Side reins do fall short in that if used improperly they encourage leaning (so I vary length regularly within the workout). However I feel when you use all sorts of gadgets and contraptions you take away from the most important natural aids. I'd rather do some longing with long loose side reins to encourage the horse to stretch and reinforce that on a long rein under saddle to allow them to learn to accept the contact.

I prefer to teach the horse to accept and give them the time to figure it out rather than use a gadget to force or push it on them. (force can be too harsh of a word sorry.) does that mean I am anti-draw reins? No. But I prefer them to help a trained horse coming back into work with conditioning rather than to teach a green horse how to round and accept the bit bc again I feel they can encourage the horse to lean, root, or duck behind the bit.

Training tools do have their place, and I will never say that one or the other is the be all end all to a problem nor will I say that they are all bad and should never be used. Imho the pessoa system is a shortcut that has some positives but I see more often misused as a way to get a horse "into a frame" in less time than traditional workouts (longing, long lining, ground driving, and U/S work). But I know this is my opinion and I have certainly seen tools such as the pessoa system benefit some horses.

In short I feel that most training tools and gadgets can be very easily overused and go from complimenting the traditional training to replacing it all together. At the end of the day I want a horse that seeks out the contact regardless of seat or discipline, without the need for any extra accessories (tie downs, fig 8s, etc.) so that those additional items of tack and training tools can be used when circumstances warrant (horse coming back into work, for safety when field hunting, etc.). At home I want to be able to school in the simplest of simple and KNOW that my horse understands my NATURAL aids rather than rely on outside tools wherever possible.

(disclaimer: this is not intended to start an argument, just my opinion of tools and how I have seen them used/overused. This is not a judgement against the OP or anyone in here for that matter and as stated I DO use tools in my training as I see fit and how my trainers see fit.) :)