Is this what the WP judges want to see?

That's beautiful. It's about the pace my horse moves, and the headset I have him at. When I picture "pleasure", that's what I see. Not a horse with his head between his knees, and somehow managing to canter in a four beat, which I guess then is really not a canter anymore. We need to see more of that.

^ Agreed. That horse has some fantastic training on him.

It is not just training. It is physical ability. Most horses just can not lope. That is why you get the ugly movement. People are trying to make a horse lope that just real dose not have the ability. It is like not all horses can win the Derby or jump 5ft fences. So You get this second rate move meant. The judges are trying to get away from it but some times the hole class is like that and then what do you do. When it is done right it is so pretty just like watching a Hunter Canter only in slow motion.
Pushing the hip over is supposed to be a training aid not to slow horses down which is what a lot of people use it for. It is supposed to engage your horses hindquarters :Like a hunches in" to encourage them to reach and stretch forward. When they are moving better you release.
Head is not supposed to be more than 2 in below withers.
Not all horse that are bread for what ever your event is can do it.
On the other hand not all people can afford to buy the horses that do what they want to do.
The jog has its problems to. So many people try to make it as slow as possible and lose the one two beat. Up is supposed to be about collection on a lose rain.

That is just ugly. This horse is sore. I question where these shows are going anymore.

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In relation to your post I have no idea what the judges look for, but that's horrible. Physically damaging to the horse.

As someone that shows western pleasure I'm throwing in my 2 cents. The horse clearly has flaws. He is not a good loper but obviously would look 10 times better a notch or 2 faster. His front legs are my peeve... When the inside leg doesn't reach. He's not using his shoulders. They have more emphasis on the speed and not the movement. Balance both speed and movement and you end up with a beautiful result (proving the horse is a good loper in the first place).

To the earlier post about horses moving sideways: The purpose is to get more drive out of both the hocks and get the shoulders working more. At least that's the original idea. When riders slack, then you get the sideways crap. The horse should have a bit of a bend (providing they keep the horses shoulder from dropping). It's not an easy move for the horse but the end result really is pretty (please don't throw things at me for saying that), however there's nothing better than seeing a horse be able to do it without getting the hip pushed in so much. Hello natural talent. Those are the horses though that win the world titles and obviously a majority don't have that. It's a way to work with what ya got. It's also a good way to teach a horse to drive... as you look at a senior western pleasure class, I bet you don't see that sideways stuff usually.

I accept that the western pleasure world has its flaws, but it's a blast to show. There's nothing I love more than to show my horse with the reins loose to his knees, head level, flat front legs, and his hocks DRIVING (but not sideways - never sideways haha). Don't let a few bad apples skew your opinion that everyone that shows wp rides their horse like that.

Now that youtube video that paintedpastures posted: BEAUTIFUL. I need to get me some more of that. :)

RC82, ok here is another one I like to watch But is no wonder these 2 videos I posted show horses that have the breeding & a natural talent they where born with.

That stud is truely the best of the best. He's so cool. When I was a youth, a girl I used to show with had a son of Zips Chocolate Chip. That horse was just beautiful to watch. It was a given, in the Western Pleasure, we'd hope for 2nd because we knew he couldn't be beaten. Must of been rough having that kind of horse for the 13 and under. Ha!

WP horses should NOT look like they are limping. The "new trend" these days blows my mind. The horses are beat down, their mouths yanked on all the time and spurs dug into them for moving out. That's just my opinion because to me that does not look like a pleasure it looks painful.

I've been trying to learn WP over the past year plus. I think the low head carriage is just hideous. I realize that no "show style" is exactly natural for a horse, but when the horse looks like it is going to hit its nose on the ground, that is just stupid.