When to ask for the "rollback" when backing
 
 

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When to ask for the "rollback" when backing

This is a discussion on When to ask for the "rollback" when backing within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Ken mcnabb
  • Backing horse in roll back

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  • 1 Post By COWCHICK77

 
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    10-17-2012, 03:29 PM
  #1
Foal
When to ask for the "rollback" when backing

I've been stopping my horse, asking him to back and then turning him into the fence and trotting off the other way to improve his stop but I was wondering... If i'm lets say trotting with the fence on my right then stop and back up, do I ask for the turn into the fence when he is rocked back on his left or right hind foot? Does that make sense, or even matter? Thanks!
     
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    10-17-2012, 05:02 PM
  #2
Weanling
I BET IT DOES MATTER! I know foot fall plays a huge roll in properly cueing a horse (likein picking up the right lead), but I never thought about making sure my horse is on the proper foot for a roll back.. never occured to me for some reason.

Im interested too, so bump:)
     
    10-17-2012, 05:24 PM
  #3
Banned
Correct Rollback Position, Part 1 – America’s Horse Daily

Read this

I'm not very go at explaining this, but eventually you get a 'feel' for it
     
    10-17-2012, 05:30 PM
  #4
Trained
I ask when he is round/soft in the backup then if you are going to turn to the right ask when the right front foot is back so he can sweep across with the left front for the turn.

Just a side note, a true roll back is one maneuver of a stop and reverse of direction, there is no backing or hesitation between the stop and turn. Also don't always ask for the rollback into the fence, he will start anticipating. Switch it up so that he is paying attention and waiting for you to give direction.
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peppersgirl likes this.
     
    10-17-2012, 06:54 PM
  #5
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by COWCHICK77    
I ask when he is round/soft in the backup then if you are going to turn to the right ask when the right front foot is back so he can sweep across with the left front for the turn.

Just a side note, a true roll back is one maneuver of a stop and reverse of direction, there is no backing or hesitation between the stop and turn. Also don't always ask for the rollback into the fence, he will start anticipating. Switch it up so that he is paying attention and waiting for you to give direction.
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When I went to a Ken McNabb clinic you asked for the turn when the right foot was forward and they were just picking it up so they would set it down off to the right.
     
    10-17-2012, 07:10 PM
  #6
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by churumbeque    
When I went to a Ken McNabb clinic you asked for the turn when the right foot was forward and they were just picking it up so they would set it down off to the right.
For a roll back or like cutting horse turn like the OP is doing?
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    10-18-2012, 10:06 AM
  #7
Super Moderator
There are two distinctly different types of roll-backs. A trainer has to know what each is and have an end object before trying to teach one or the other.

1) Reining roll-back. The roll-back where a horse crosses his outside front foot over in front of the other front foot. This the roll-back seen in reining patterns. Horses are usually not backed at all into it or are backed only a partial step before they change directions. In reality, it is actually 1/2 of a spin or 'turn-around'. This is a forward movement just like a spin is.

2) Cutting roll-back. The roll-back taught by a cutting trainer is completely different. The horse is backed up to 'load' his hind end and lighten his front end. His outside front foot steps behind his inside front foot and he 'sweeps' the ground in one smooth motion. He will roll-back up to 180 degrees, but usually a little less. The horse's hind end is much deeper in the ground with his hocks almost on the ground. The horse's hocks are flexed to a much greater extent. The reining roll-back is much flatter and the horse is not nearly as deep behind. The cutting roll-back is a backing maneuver as opposed to a forward maneuver.

If a cutting horse did reining type roll-backs, it would drive the cow out past the judges. The cutting roll-back 'gives ground' to the cow and helps keep the horse in a good working position without driving the cow too far away from the herd. It is a bigger concern to the rider that the horse does not back up into the herd and lose points for 'disturbing the herd'. This happens mostly when the rider has not driven the cow out far enough before dropping their hand or having a horse that has learned to gain working advantage by backing away from the cow too much. We refer to those horses/riders as 'guarding the herd' instead of cutting the cow.
     

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