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When ground work doesn't translate to undersaddle

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  • Horse perfect groundwork bad under saddle

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    05-20-2012, 08:33 PM
  #11
Yearling
The horse needs the experience of being ridden. You can do a lot of handling on the ground, but if it doesn't relate to under saddle it won't do much good for getting the horse broke to ride.

Btw I love how you say "a specific form of NH and has been since birth". I bet I can guess lol. :P
     
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    05-20-2012, 09:36 PM
  #12
Green Broke
I think the horse was demonstrating what he was taught. You groundworked him, and rode him confidently, and he was good for you. His owner obviously doesn't groundwork him (you mentioned he was rude), lacks confidence and trust in the horse, got on him, and he demonstrated what he has learned he can do with his owner on his back.

Horses learn from consistent responses and are smart enough to tailor their responses to people/situations.
     
    05-20-2012, 10:00 PM
  #13
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by DancingArabian    
I think the horse was demonstrating what he was taught. You groundworked him, and rode him confidently, and he was good for you. His owner obviously doesn't groundwork him (you mentioned he was rude), lacks confidence and trust in the horse, got on him, and he demonstrated what he has learned he can do with his owner on his back.

Horses learn from consistent responses and are smart enough to tailor their responses to people/situations.
I agree! This doesn't sound like a "groundwork issue" at all - just an owner who doesn't have the confidence (and/or skills?) to properly handle her horse.
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    05-20-2012, 10:10 PM
  #14
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daisy25    
I agree! This doesn't sound like a "groundwork issue" at all - just an owner who doesn't have the confidence (and/or skills?) to properly handle her horse.
If she doesn't establish her role as herd leader, and lacks confidence too, she's never going to be able to do anything with him and he may turn more dangerous.

Hence the reason I think Oxer should not be involved. What if he did that to her too, thinking she was the owner? Eh?

A trainer needs to be brought in, one that knows how to deal with blind bolting (or whatever he was doing) and I agree the owner either needs to gain some confidence or maybe think about a different horse (or lessons/leasing if she really lacks in the confidence department.)

I'm proof that you can gain confidence from being terrified of the horse you have. It's possible, just takes a lot of patience and time spent out of the comfort zone and a good riding instructor.

If she wants to overcome this, there has to be money involved. To pay, at least, a trainer. And at best, both a trainer AND riding instructor.
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    05-20-2012, 10:11 PM
  #15
Super Moderator
I agree with smrobs and Daisy. This horse has her number and will just repeat the bad behavior when she gets back on. She can do groundwork until the cows come home and he will still dump her at will. Other more confident riders will not have any trouble with her -- I'll bet.

This horse needs a job and a more confident rider and she needs and old 'packer' like the horse I put in the' horses for sale' section. She needs to find one like that is near her and then she needs to get some lessons in horse handling and riding -- not useless equitation lessons.
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    05-20-2012, 10:30 PM
  #16
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherie    
and then she needs to get some lessons in horse handling and riding -- not useless equitation lessons.
Was this in response to what I suggested? A good riding instructor will not teach someone "useless equitation lessons" they will teach a rider how to stay on, push through, and come out with more confidence. And if they're REALLY good, they mix in ground work and horse handling.

Again, nothing useless about that.
     
    05-20-2012, 10:43 PM
  #17
Showing
From the sound of your story, this lady opted to ride right after you had. I'm wondering, since we don't know the horse's history, if he figured he's entitled to go back to the barn when you dismounted. As so often happens, when a horse has been ridden he gets to return to his stall without another rider mounting. One horse I had would totally shut down if I'd ridden him even for a few minutes then allowed another rider on him. In his mind he was done when I dismounted.
     
    05-20-2012, 10:44 PM
  #18
Super Moderator
Nope! Not in response to anything you said. It was in response to all of the people I get, some that have had years of riding lessons, and they are clueless as to what to do when they want to go south and dobbin wants to go north. So many instructors teach 'equitation' and 'form' on an old lesson horse that take voice commands from the instructor but they never teach how to handle a horse that does not necessarily want to do what its rider wants or go where its riders wants it to go.

I see riders all of the time that sit up there with perfect form until the horse runs off to the gate and they scream or jump off or do absolutely nothing, maybe futilely pull straight back on both reins screaming "Whoa!".

So, don't take it personal. Sure wasn't meant that way.
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    05-20-2012, 10:50 PM
  #19
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherie    
Nope! Not in response to anything you said. It was in response to all of the people I get, some that have had years of riding lessons, and they are clueless as to what to do when they want to go south and dobbin wants to go north. So many instructors teach 'equitation' and 'form' on an old lesson horse that take voice commands from the instructor but they never teach how to handle a horse that does not necessarily want to do what its rider wants or go where its riders wants it to go.

I see riders all of the time that sit up there with perfect form until the horse runs off to the gate and they scream or jump off or do absolutely nothing, maybe futilely pull straight back on both reins screaming "Whoa!".

So, don't take it personal. Sure wasn't meant that way.
Wasn't taking it personally :) Just wanted to make sure of what you thought. But I agree.. dead broke is nice but one of these days even that dead broke horse will give you trouble and you won't have a clue what to do unless you've been taught to deal with these problems.

I used to be one of those "sit there and do nothing" because of all of the "lessons" of riding which despite taking lessons for over 9 years.. I only count 2 years of REAL riding lessons lol.. not "sit here and look beautiful."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saddlebag    
From the sound of your story, this lady opted to ride right after you had. I'm wondering, since we don't know the horse's history, if he figured he's entitled to go back to the barn when you dismounted. As so often happens, when a horse has been ridden he gets to return to his stall without another rider mounting. One horse I had would totally shut down if I'd ridden him even for a few minutes then allowed another rider on him. In his mind he was done when I dismounted.
That is an excellent point.. didn't even think about that!

~~~~

I don't know.. a horse being good once doesn't mean it's trained. It could have been a one off thing. He needs to be consistently good, in my eyes, to be considered trained. Every horse has their goof ups, including blind bolting, but it's not good to assume that he's fine because Oxer treated him as he should be treated. I wouldn't take such a gamble, you know?
     
    05-21-2012, 12:20 AM
  #20
Yearling
What you have said Cherie, is what I had also conveyed to the owner. I explained to her that, he needs to have much more a purpose. He's only 10 years old and is a beautifully put together horse. He needs to run barrels, jump fences, sort cows, whatever it is... he just needs to go do it.
Another problem though is that she really couldn't "sell" this horse in our area. I fear he would need to be donated. He's not rideable for anyone intermediate, and most advanced riders aren't looking for a 10 year old horse that needs a VERY SERIOUS attitude adjustment. In my opinion, I wouldn't take him were he given to me for free.

Saddlebag, While I can appreciate whatever the horse "thought" was going on... it shouldn't have ever been allowed to happen. If he'd done that with me, I would have one rein stopped him, turned him right back around, and headed straight back out in to the arena for more work. If he thinks he's going to take me for a drag back to the barn, he gets to go right back to work. I for one, have never had a barn sour, stall sour, or buddy sour horse. It's something that I would address the MOMENT the behavior reared it's ugly head.

I'm with you Sky. Our horses will act like horses from time to time. It's the nature of things. What I think is a trained horse, someone else might think is a fire breathing dragon. You have to know what is right for you, for your level of riding. I think if the bad times begin to out number the good times in your relationship with your horse, then it's time to make a choice.
     

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