Yes we have actually, just letting him wear it, packing I guess if that's what it's called, ha. We've done that for quite some time. Off and on that is. I know you aren't talking down. I appreciate the tips, I think we'll have to start over after all this is done, will find out Saturday if he has wolf teeth, I can't even get him to open his mouth and can hardly touch his mouth, he won't have it. It's hard enough to get him to mouth the rope to put in and when he figures out what we want he starts throwing his head around again. I think it might be wolf teeth coming in, the vet couldnt' see much last time but felt like he needed floating but said it wasnt' that bad, her assistant wasn't with her and she wouldn't heavily sedate him without her assistant supposed to be out Saturday. called her a bit ago and she still doubted it was his wolf teeth, I 've had that assumption all along I guess he wouldnt' be very still last time, even with sedation, it's hard to get a good exam. She seems to think it's behavior, which it could be but I know him and weve had him since he was 7 months old, we KNOW his behavior. Something is wrong, whatever it is. he does fine with halters, with bits, he'll just stand there when the bit is in his mouth, you start messing with the reigns and he acts like a fool. haha. He even gets dizzy and starts tripping. That's dangerous enough.