The Horse Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

Where's the 'go' button?!

3K views 28 replies 14 participants last post by  ShirtHotTeez 
#1 ·
My newly broken filly had her first ride out with me yesterday. I was ready for a nice brisk pace, my brother was on his horse and we were set to go. Except she wasn't.
She's not my first young horse but she's the first that isn't forward moving. She did not respond to my leg aides at all. She wasn't stressed, wasn't dancing around, she wasn't doing anything other than plodding along, half asleep. I tried a different saddle, taking away her buddy (which resulted in a pathetic buck and a stampy hoof) and I basically gave her her mouth, but no, nothing. I'm gonna change her name to Eeyore if she's not careful :blueunicorn: I don't think she's in pain, her back is fine, hooves done, teeth done, honing around the paddock without a care in the world...
Any tips for getting a 'go' on her? The breaker said that she had more woah than go which is fine but I don't want to have to use such heavy legs on a young horse!
If worse comes to it I may just turn her out for a year. She is 3.5 years so I'm in no rush, just interested to see if any one has any ideas for me.
 
#2 ·
You should know that horses do not have buttons...lol!

Use a crop until she learns your cue. Squeeze, no response, tap with the crop. No response, squeeze harder, no response, tap harder. I have always taught the voice command on long lines(my horses drive also, so they learn to go forward from the bit, too), which may help you, too.
 
#3 ·
Wouldn't it be great if they also came with individual instruction manuals?! :D

Pan drives well, responds to voice and is a lovely little mover in hand. It's almost like she shuts down when I'm on her. I'm bringing her into town so I can work with her more directly and re-establish our working relationship. I bred her so I'm not putting up with a spoilt, sassy, fat pony!

Also, I was being completely open with her, hands and seat wise. She was just completely ignoring my legs :neutral:

I WAS going to get my whip but totally forgot and by the time I remembered I was absolutely exhausted from all the leg work I had done :icon_rolleyes:
 
#4 ·
Exactly how much training & many rides has this horse had?
The lack of forward motion can be because the horse does not understand the cue from a new or inexperienced rider, or the trainer did not established solid cues for forward motion when the colt was started.

To start I would first talk to your trainer and ask them what cue they used to ask for each gait Walk, Trot , canter when they trained this horse. The use the exact same method when riding the horse and see if the performance improves.
 
#5 ·
When I started my beloved Chorro, he also did not have a "go" button, and he was the only young horse out of the maybe 8 horses that I have started in my life, who did not. He had 2 years of groundwork waiting for him to grow up, and lots of lungeline and longline training, so I was surprised.

I mostly rode him with other people who would take his rein and gently urge him along when he would stop. When I would ride him by myself, it was tedious, because he stopped often, and I had to keep after him. I tried smacking him with a crop on about the 5th ride, and he exploded into rodeo bucks and bucked me off, so I didn't try that again.

He just got steadily better and better. Now, at age 12, you would never know he didn't "go". He moves out beautifully, leads the ride (if asked, he doesn't really love to lead, but he will), and I ride him solo for hours. Pure pleasure. It just took time.

My neighbor, who has started around 200 colts, says that every once in awhile, you get a young horse like that. They all come around with time. It doesn't mean they are lazy or won't go ahead as they mature.
 
#15 ·
My experience with my one and only green horse has been similar. He came back from the trainer "stalling out" constantly. You could wack him and wack him and he just stood there and took it. He only walked off when he was ready. That was when he was around 3. He's coming 6 now and he still occasionally stops but is easy to get going again. He's gotten a lot better with more riding.

With my guy, it's almost like he stares off into space looking at something. I use my "go" cue of choice (I've tried spurs, crops, the ends of the split reins, turning him in a circle etc,) and then it's like I break his concentration and he's like "HEY HUMAN, quit annoying me!!!" and has a little tantrum of head tossing and sometimes small bucks but has never gone truly "rodeo" on me, thank god! But anyway, he stops way less now and is easier to get going when he does. The worst part is, his favorite place to stop is going up a hill. Sometimes I will let him trot up hill because it's better than stopping and refusing to go forward on a hill.

Anyway, just commiserating!
 
#6 ·
When I got my barely-started horse a few months ago, she would stop randomly and seemed to not to know how to get going again. Sometimes she would back up instead.

I would just kick her gently over and over until she went forward. Not escalating, just being annoying. AS SOON as she went forward I would stop kicking. If she went backward I would tap her butt with a crop.

She barely gives me this behavior any more.

For speeding up the pace of a walk (she would plod in an arena, no problems on a trail though) I would exaggerate the rhythm of my own movement and if that didn't work, tap her with alternate heels. AS SOON as she sped up I would stop doing that. It took some patience but now she knows this cue too.

Approaching it from the basis of "doesn't yet really understand what I'm asking for" has been helpful for me.
 
#7 ·
Awesome advice guys! Thanks!

So, I backed her, mouthed her, long-reined her. I sent her off to get a few rides under her and get her started seriously. I am in contact with my trainer who is very helpful. She has said that she was at danger of going a bit sour or 'overloaded' so to just take it slow.
I guess I'm just a bit bemused as I started her dam did not have this problem, same with the other young ones I've had. I can deal with the bucking and a fast pace...I'm stumped with the not moving thing haha

Glad to see it's not just me and my little brat!
 
#8 ·
Greentree said exactly what I came to say. It helps to get the voice commands down on lunge or long-lines with ground driving first- it's part of the reason many horses that have only ever driven (think drafts or Standardbreds) tend to transition so easily to saddle work- they already know the voice commands and basic rein cues, you just need to line them up with the saddle cues.

If she's in danger of souring, it's good that you put her in the hands of a trainer. It may be that she gets it, but you're hammering home the basics so many times that she's bored. Souring is usually boredom combined with frustration.

Maybe try to work in some desensitization exercises (if she long-lines, get a surcingle on her and have her drag a tarp, walk over sticks, ground drive her in a different area and over obstacles), walks around the property, even something like in-hand trail obstacles you build yourself. It could be a case where it's not so much "Too much, too soon", but she's not being challenged enough. That's my personal preference, though.
 
#9 ·
Flo was like that when I first backed her which I did not expect at all because she was such a hyper mare in ever other respect.
I think it was some sort of lack of confidence in herself or maybe she was worried about losing her self control if she went any faster than a ploddy walk because a few weeks later she started to get more 'active' and after a month she became the very forward going responsive horse that she was to be for the rest of her life.
 
#10 ·
Second ride today. We were much more forward moving with a whip. She got three chances to respond to leg and on the fourth time it got backed up with a tap from my pink fluorescent gogo stick.
Her trot is friking tiny compared to what I've got used to (17hh Clydesdale compared to teeny 15hh xbreed) so it caught me off guard to begin with but we got going eventually.
No bucking or stomping today! Hopefully she'll get over herself and lighten up sooner rather than later.
 
#11 ·
Second ride today. We were much more forward moving with a whip. She got three chances to respond to leg and on the fourth time it got backed up with a tap from my pink fluorescent gogo stick.
I don't think I'd give her that many chances to respond before correcting her. Ask, Tell, Demand - the tap with the crop is the "Demand" part. Otherwise it's just teaching her to ignore you until you really get after her, and you don't want her to feel like she's got the option to wait until that moment.
 
#13 ·
Hi, I'm new to the forum and I have a similar issue with my 6 yr old gelding. Except he is not as nice when asked to go! A little back story on him: I've only had him for a few weeks. I've trail ridden him a few times and he did great except he's a little lazy and can be stubborn. The trail riding isn't the issue tho, it's working him by himself. The past couple of times I've worked him and asked him to get into a trott he has thrown a fit. He tosses his head, hops in the air, rears a little and is very hard to get going again. I'm not not sure if he has become barn or buddy sour now or what. He doesn't whinny and will ride off from the barn and his 2 pasture mates fine. It's just a issue when I ask him to pick up the pace and getting him to canter is extremely difficult. He is a good boy on the trails but I want to be able to work him around the farm as well. Any suggestions? Thanks!
 
#17 ·
You will have to accept that we have to make assumptions, and that they may be wrong. I give my suggestions as English riding so you will need to make adjustments for western.

I would believed that he has got away with this behaviour with a previous owner, and because he was difficult, they stopped trying to make him work. Horses learn by release, so you make the right thing easy, and the wrong thing hard. By stopping when he was difficult, they were reinforcing the bad behaviour.

So you get to fix it. I am assuming you are working in an arena, or on a circle. Starting at a walk I would walk the circle (or arena) twice, on as loose a rein as you are comfortable with. Then pick up contact keeping forward momentum and do another circle. If he tosses his head or jigs, turn a tight circle fairly quickly and ask him to walk on. When that is going well ask for the trot, and again with the tight circles if he plays up. Always work both sides before ending session (circle clockwise, and counterclockwise)

Also if he lunges, and you are confident lunging, I would do that with him as well. It will help get forward even paces, and get him listening to your voice as well.

This horse has some holes in his training so IMO you would both benefit from working with a trainer if you are able. A horse with some basic schooling and manners will make for a better trail horse as well.
 
#18 ·
Thanks everyone for the advice, very helpful. I do not know anything about his previous training. The lady I bought him from only had him for a couple of months and barely rode him. She said he was too tall for her, he's 16.1. I do agree with his previous owners letting him get away with stopping and re-enforcing bad behavior. He is a good boy on the trails, not spooky, level headed and listens to me for the most part. He needs help on cantering as well. I ride with people who mainly ride TWH's and we have to canter quite often to keep up. It's almost like he gets nervous and doesn't know what to do with his long legs! I know it's just going to take time, patience and work for us to get to know each other. I've been riding my paint mare for 8 years! And I agree about working with a trainer as well. I've been riding since I was very young and have started a few colts but it will be nice to get another perspective. Thanks again everyone! Very helpful! ?
 
#20 ·
Hey, I just wanted to share my experiences.
I haven't started a lot of colts, but I always like begin with 'go'. To me, that is the most important thing. Without it, you're horse will surely buck at some point. I have ridden a variety of horses, and the donkeying ones are usually the ones that buck.
What sort of spur are you using? We don't want to hurt the horse with bad rowels, but a longer shank will save you a lot of effort.
While the crop may help, it would be better if you could get him to go because of your legs. When you use the crop, pet him on the butt a lot afterwards, so he doesn't get flinchy or scared about things near his butt. Also be sure to have your seat forward when you ask him to go. Even though some cues (clucking, leaning forward, lifting hand) don't work, try them every time anyway.
Once he gets moving you should be able to relax at any gait (quit cueing) and still have him continue on. If you are kicking a lot at the trot or lope, don't. Give him a chance to mess up.
Also remember that green horses are very capable of a good canter departure, he should figure this out pretty quick.
Don't give your legs a break! Also try to kick rapidly, not harder. The reasoning here is that if you are getting a lot of backswing he thinks that the raising of the legs is a cue to go, instead of a cue to woah.
In a western saddle, with proper posture, kicking is more of a twitch of the foot. I just put weight on my toes and my spur hits the horse.
If you feel like he is getting worse, get a trainer. Preferably not the one that let him get so sour in the first place :/
Be consistent, and I'm sure this won't last long. Good luck!
 
#21 ·
Thanks Redcitylights! I don't wear spurs with him or use a crop. He is very reactive to a crop and the lungewhip. Almost like someone has really let him have with them. I asked the lady I bought him from for the guy's number that she purchased him from but she has yet to give it to me. The only thing that really worries me when Sunday starts throwing one of his "fits" is the rearing. He came up pretty high in the air the other day and I was a little worried about him flipping over on me. I, of course, immediately released all rein pressure as soon as he started to rear. He has never done that before. I'm going to continue his ground work and lungeing and hopefully he will stop throwing fits when asked to move away from the barn. He is new to me so we are still trying to figure each other out. I do believe he had it kind of rough at the last real owner's place(not the lady I bought him from)because he was pretty thin and a little skittish. He has come a long way in a short time and now is the first horse to greet me at the fence and follows me around like a dog. Lol. Thank you for the advice! I'm going to take it all in and really do some more work with him this weekend. We are going on a big trail ride tomorrow so I'm really looking forward to that! I hope everyone has a great weekend and gets some riding time in! ??
 
#22 ·
I didn't read past the first few replies so excuse me if I missed something.

Young horses do NOT just "know" that leg means go. They absolutely do not. I have never ever gotten on one, been able to nudge with my legs, and have them go - This is why round pen and groundwork is important, because you establish your verbal cues (Cluck, kiss) and understanding of a crop of a whip, so that when you are under saddle you can begin teaching them about legs.

So many times I have seen people start colts and just expect them to know what legs are. You get on one and start flapping, a good minded horse will just tolerate it thinking it's some form of stupid human thing and he just has to take it - A bad minded or squirrely horse will leave you on your rear in a heartbeat.

It sounds like this horse has been to the trainer and whoever started him probably did so fairly well (Or at least I'm assuming the best) - So the horse understands leg. What the horse does not understand however, probably, is why you are using primarily leg. Try clucking to her. Be forward and fluid. Colts are more sensitive than older horses, because they haven't learned to tolerate human BS yet. Get a crop next time. Use your legs less, and your other aids more. Colts often get dead sided by doing exactly what you are doing - kicking and nudging and not following through to make anything happen.
 
#24 ·
Hi there. Thanks for your input!
This little brat knows my kisses and clucks by heart. I bred the little madam. She drives, lunges and responds beautifully on the ground, as she should (almost 4 years of me telling her what to do gives her no excuse not to!:wink:)
The trainer has done a lovely job and reckons she just needs riding through it. It seems to me just to be an education thing. I'm currently doing short, fun, interesting rides out and about which she is enjoying. Still drags her feet and is sluggish on the commands but I've just got to suck it up and realise she's only a baby. I think I'm expecting too much too soon!
Loving all the input though! Thanks everyone! :D
 
#25 ·
Well, I found it!
Had a lovely ride today. She was a moron in the riding paddock as her paddock buddies were screaming for her, lots of forward motion, which I put to good use. Once I felt she was actually listening to me I took her out down the road where she was a saint. She loved it! Stuck her nose in people's letterboxes, walked past irrigators and paddocks of other horses. She balked at a limestone driveway by snorting at it then stamping her front hoof on it. After that it was clear sailing. Finished up very smartly and I'm very happy with her. She responded to my voice and legs, needed one lot of encouragement with the whip but all in all much much better!!
 
#26 ·
Cool, thx for taking it! If you feel like you need to bail when he is rearing, try to go off on the side with his eye showing. Really though, rearing is sometimes the mark of a great horse. I always did a one rein stop on my sisters little rearing horse, but I don't know if that will be the trick for him. The most important thing is to adapt, which I know you're good with.
Good luck! Oh wait!! A new post, I'll go read it.

That's great, often a change in terrain makes a horse learn trust, and it sounds like you nailed that. Cool.
 
#27 ·
So I've turned her out up the farm because I could feel myself getting frustrated with her.
We went on a road ride with a friend and her pony. Pony was charging off ahead so I thought 'Oo! Maybe we'll get a bit of walk going here!'
No
Absolutely the most boring ride ever. I let her have her head, tried not to interfere with her, other than insisting she move her bloody butt, we even had a little trot...which was also slow as hell and boring.
Ok so I didn't fall off, she stood politely for me to mount and dismount, was more responsive to aids, BUT OH MY GAWD WOULD YOU BLOODY WELL MOVE?!?!
So, she is in a huge paddock behind my parent's house with my yearling. Pan is LOVING it! She is honing around, really stretching out and generally loving being a horse. It's great to see. She's started enjoying my company again (before she would ignore me, walk away from me when I came into the paddock. Now she runs up to see me like she used to) and I'm glad I'm giving her this time off to work things out in her head :)


In the mean time I'm back riding her mum who is just awesome :D Great to have a horse with some get up and go!
 
#29 ·
Just in case its not clear . . . when you are using the whip to enforce a leg aid, the whip is used just behind the leg approx where you would nudge/kick them. You are not hitting the shoulder or beating them on the rump. The whip is just another tool to help achieve a given outcome, it does not need to be cruel. Like anything, you use just as much pressure as you need, so some horses may just need a tap with it, others may need a flick.

Quote:
Originally posted by Anndankev
Oh geez, I thought this thread was about the new HF site look. LOL
LOL
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top