Why does the trainer tie horse's lead line to tail - Page 3 - The Horse Forum

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post #21 of 61 Old 03-31-2011, 04:30 PM
mls
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Originally Posted by smrobs View Post


Wow, offensive much? There is nothing lazy about it. It is a time saver, yes,
I'm sorry but I don't see this as offensive. I have also been training for more years than I care to admit. I have never tied a horse around. I can flex a horse from ground or saddle without any effort. We work until they do it naturally.

I do not see it as a time saver - a short cut that doesn't lay the foundation.

(Working at the clinic, I have seen a few horses come in requiring sutures or chiro work due to 'time savers'. In the long run it wasn't a time saver - or a money saver.)
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post #22 of 61 Old 03-31-2011, 04:30 PM
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How long have you been a trainer? How many horses do you ride each day? Have you ever tried this method? Since when is it your place to call someone lazy and incompetent? As for "better ways" and "doing it right", that's a matter of opinion again. I'll take my personal experience over your preaching any day and my experience tells me that this method is effective and efficient. You don't agree with it, fine, but be careful about throwing a hissy fit and spouting words like 'incompetent' or 'lazy' about people you don't know.
I have been teaching horses for about 40 years. I usually ride about 6-9 horses everyday. If I don't have the time to do something right then I don't do it. That goes for all things in my life. I'm sorry you take such offense but that is my opinion and the people that I have seen do this are not good with horses at all. This is just on of those "shortcuts" that people take to try and minimize costs.

I don't think it is good for the horse and it is certainly not as good as me spending a few sessions teaching this which is way more beneficial for the horse and for the relationship that I am having with that horse. Did you enjoy grade school teachers that weren't fair with you. I doubt it very much and in fact it probably affected your ability to learn later in life.
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post #23 of 61 Old 03-31-2011, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mls View Post
I do not see it as a time saver - a short cut that doesn't lay the foundation.

(Working at the clinic, I have seen a few horses come in requiring sutures or chiro work due to 'time savers'. In the long run it wasn't a time saver - or a money saver.)
Exactly.
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post #24 of 61 Old 03-31-2011, 04:49 PM
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I think it is hard to judge whether this method is right or wrong. Any method in the wrong hands can be wrong. Any method with the wrong horse can be wrong. If someone takes a green horse, ties it up with ropes and leaves it, I wouldn't call that a good training method. A horse could easily flip over or hurt its neck. I don't like over flexing a horse for to wrong, it will often teach them to brace against it-if the method isn't being used properly. This method should not be used to make a horse give in to dominance or used to impede the horse from showing signs that something in their training isn't right-eg. Bucking or rearing. That would be a shortcut. With the wrong horse, this method could end in a disaster and even more so with the wrong person doing it. For people who know what they are doing, understand the horse they are training, and know the outcomes of such a method then it isn't wrong. If some inexperience person watched a training video that said to use this method and they went and tried it on their horse, then it would be wrong. I think this does help the horse understand giving to pressure but I don't think the rope should be too tight. There must also be some way of the system braking under force because a horse could hurt itself.

This method isn't a method of training a horse to communicate with it's rider. This method is merely teaching a horse to give to pressure. Personally, I wouldn't use this method because I like being more involved. I wouldn't leave a horse tied up in a round pen...ever. I think that if you use this method, you should be with the horse. My version of this method would have me controlling the 'system' at the other end of the rope. I also really like ground driving. I hate using ropes to tie horses. I wouldn't use this method because I don't think that forcing 'give' brings a willing and obedient horse. You have to respect the horse. Respect isn't one way. You may get results but those results a the horse unwillingly submitting.

This method should not be used as a time saver. Actually the tying the head to the tail and leaving it method shouldn't be used. The method that is o.k. Is the method that teaches the horse to give to pressure with the trainer doing the training. Even if the trainer is doing the training, using the horse to teach itself can be a method in the training. It should not be done for long periods of time, the horse doesn't need to be tied up for 2 hours to be taught to give to pressure. If it takes that long, then that is not a good method. For this to be a good method it has to be part of the training with the trainer.

Last edited by SPhorsemanship; 03-31-2011 at 04:57 PM. Reason: addition
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post #25 of 61 Old 03-31-2011, 04:54 PM
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Is ground driving Just long riening

Never judge a book by their cover, also never judge a pony by their height. They tend to be big personalities in little packages.
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post #26 of 61 Old 03-31-2011, 04:58 PM
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Is ground driving Just long riening
Yes it is.
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post #27 of 61 Old 03-31-2011, 05:30 PM
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Tying the horse's head around most likely causes pain, boredom, & frustration, & there's the possibility of an accident. I'd like to think that all of that is enough for people to reconsider the practice. I also am especially concerned for the type of horse who "sucks it up", is quiet & nonresistant, but then "explodes" in panic/frustration.

Also, as others've said, this method removes the most important element in "training": the relationship. The dynamic is reduced to the purely mechanical. The horse'll try & find where his body & mouth are most comfortable while his head's held around: that's all.

Smrobs, how does one get the horse's head sufficiently bent in order to tie it? Since the horse hasn't had the benefit of inch-by-inch learning to yield his head with a human helping him, how do you take a raw horse & get his head around? (or do I really want to know?)

Last edited by Northern; 03-31-2011 at 05:35 PM.
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post #28 of 61 Old 03-31-2011, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Northern View Post
Tying the horse's head around most likely causes pain, boredom, & frustration, & there's the possibility of an accident. I'd like to think that all of that is enough for people to reconsider the practice. I also am especially concerned for the type of horse who "sucks it up", is quiet & nonresistant, but then "explodes" in panic/frustration.
Or they could spook, hit the end of the rope and go over. It needs to be able to break-but wait then it might not work because with enough force the horse can free himself from being tied to himself. Why can't the trainer be part of this training?
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post #29 of 61 Old 03-31-2011, 05:50 PM
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In my honest opinion I feel every horse has an ideal training option that varies between horse to horse. One method may work on one horse but fail with another. I think it all comes down to being able to understand what kind of training that specific horse requires.
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post #30 of 61 Old 03-31-2011, 05:56 PM
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I think that there are techniques and then there are principles. It is both that develop the relationship and that is what helps to create an educated horse that is safe to ride. Using these "tricks" is no way to teach and I guess I think that there are right ways and wrong ways to teach a horse. Just like I don't agree with teachers hitting kids. That is definitely the wrong way.

I think that if the human develops good skills then techniques can be modified and adjusted to fit a particular situation or horse. But I don't think that tying up a horse to teach it to bend is a good technique and it clearly violates my principles.
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