Will your horse respond to your bit? - Page 18
 
 

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Will your horse respond to your bit?

This is a discussion on Will your horse respond to your bit? within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Shawn flarida hickory stop
  • Shawn flarida terrible roll back

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    10-09-2010, 06:53 PM
  #171
Showing
I love Shawn Flarida. I think he is one of my favorite trainers mostly because many of his horses actually finish the rollback instead of half-assing it. I hated his bad luck in the WEG individual competition.
     
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    10-09-2010, 07:09 PM
  #172
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by smrobs    
I love Shawn Flarida. I think he is one of my favorite trainers mostly because many of his horses actually finish the rollback instead of half-assing it. I hated his bad luck in the WEG individual competition.

I agree and I love the way his horses stop. I remember looking for a stallion several years ago and was looking for certain lines to compliment my mare. I watched a video of Shawn riding Zan Freckles Hickory and the way he stopped and fell in love with him.

I know I watched his run and say the strap brake and fly off. Been there done that. Not fun. I feel bad for him. If not for that bad luck he would have won. His run up to that point was looking like a 228+

Now we know how to get Shawn to score less then a 210.
     
    10-09-2010, 07:15 PM
  #173
Showing
LOL, yep. He still did dang good though considering he was riding with only 1 stirrup.
     
    10-09-2010, 07:40 PM
  #174
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by smrobs    
Bigger bits are used for refinement. That means that I can get my horse to do exactly what I want them to do in a halter, but when I have to move my hands 6 inches in a halter to achieve the same cue that I can get in a curb bit by moving my hand 1 or 2 inches. It's not about "use what works" because anything works. It's about "use what is the most subtle and gives the clearest cues". In a halter to do certain things, I have to apply a few ounces of pressure to the rein in order for the horse to understand exactly what I am asking. Compare that with being able to lift one rein by 2 inches, never contacting the bit to get the same reaction.

Think of it like this. You remember those can telephones that we all used to make as a child where you poke a hole in the bottom of a couple of tin cans and tie a string to them? Then you can talk to another person from one side of the room to the other? Remember how garbled and muted the voices were so that you could barely understand each other? That is the equivalent of a halter or soft bitless bridle.

Now think of how clear conversations are on your home phone, where you can barely whisper and the other person understands exactly what you are saying. That is the equivalent to a curb bit.

Yes, both of them work, but for finer cues and clearer communication, a curb bit is the best. Of course, that all depends on the bit being in the hands of a good rider.
GREAT way of explaining it!! Emily ~ bits themselves do not hurt horses...riders with heavy hands that don't know how to use them do. If you're one of them, then yes you will find that things work better without the bit.
     
    10-09-2010, 11:23 PM
  #175
Foal
It is your prerogative to ride with a bit just as it is mine to ride with out one that is specifically why I wrote in MY personal opinion. I dislike bits and spurs I believe that the reason horses respond quicker to them is because they feel them more and uncomfortably. Just as strongly as you feel that bits and spurs do not make horses uncomfortable is how much I do feel that they do make horses uncomfortable. As far as this "This thought is so flawed I am not even going to address it. It is like saying cows where not meant to be eaten." goes 1. If you are indeed saying that cows are meant to be eaten I'm a vegetarian. I have a feeling that is not what you meant though. 2. I feel your whole thought process is so flawed as well. I am very tired of hearing " My lack of knowledge." I am definitely offended by it. I feel as though your heels are dug and you won't try to look at other peoples opinion at all. I am not trying to change your thought process I am simply sharing mine. I thought it was a healthy debate until the lack of knowledge comment. I have not ONCE said that if somebody uses a bit that that means you are mean to your horse and a bad horseman/horsewoman. At my barn nobody uses bits, but they still teach you how they are used so stop saying I do not known how to use one. At my old barn I rode with a bit and I realized that I didn't like them and personally despised them. Also I am starting showing again and I have permission to not use a bit. So there are ways around that maybe it just means you don't enter certain shows, but that would require sacrificing something for your horse. It is a known fact that it doesn't take a lot of force to cause tissue damage from putting a bit in any horses mouth. I'm sure you know from your experience that horses have pressure points on their faces so with a proper fitted bitless bridle you could get the same reaction and precision as you would with a bit. A horses mouth is so sensitive so it can't feel good to have a bit in the mouth. I am natural horsemanship all the way and you are bit all way so we will never agree. I am great with healthy debates in fact I love them, but when people start offending me I know longer find it healthy and fun. Any horse can be trained with the proper training your method would not work on all horses neither would mine the difference is I would try more things I feel as though if a horse does not respond to your way it would be labeled a bad horse..Horses are beings too. This is something I wrote on yahoo answers : " When horses are in the wild playing with each other they don't have anything on them so for us to be most like horses playmates bareback is more natural. I don't use a bit either I ride bareback with a halter or bitless bridle. I believe horses can tell exactly how we are feeling. I believe they can sense how we feel so if we go out to work with them and we are angry they pick up on that and take on that negative energy and that shows in how they react to your training. I am just bareback and bit-less and I feel more connected to my horse than I ever have before." This just shows how I feel about horses in general and if you do not agree or understand that then there is absolutely no point in arguing about bits with you at all.


Gallop On likes this.
     
    10-09-2010, 11:37 PM
  #176
Showing
Emily, the reason that we got so up at arms was because in your first post, and almost every one subsequent, you have implied that the horse doesn't respond to the training it gets, but is simply trying to avoid the "pain" caused by the bit and/or spurs and that is why they respond. You make it sound like no matter what, even carrying around the bit is uncomfortable and maybe even painful for them. Unless you have the same mouth configuration as a horse and have tried a bit on, then you couldn't possibly know that past what your experience has been with your bits on your horses. You prefer bitless and bareback, that's fine. Going bitless and bareback is completely impractical for me since I do a lot of cow work and roping. I honestly believe that my horses like the bit because if they didn't, I seriously doubt that they would drop their head and bridle themselves the way they do. Your experience has been molded by a bad experience with a bit and that's fine. We are each influenced by our own experiences, but it was rather offensive to me to read someone who automatically assumes that my horses are uncomfortable in the bit when I see proof every day to the contrary.
     
    10-09-2010, 11:53 PM
  #177
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by smrobs    
Emily, the reason that we got so up at arms was because in your first post, and almost every one subsequent, you have implied that the horse doesn't respond to the training it gets, but is simply trying to avoid the "pain" caused by the bit and/or spurs and that is why they respond. You make it sound like no matter what, even carrying around the bit is uncomfortable and maybe even painful for them. Unless you have the same mouth configuration as a horse and have tried a bit on, then you couldn't possibly know that past what your experience has been with your bits on your horses. You prefer bitless and bareback, that's fine. Going bitless and bareback is completely impractical for me since I do a lot of cow work and roping. I honestly believe that my horses like the bit because if they didn't, I seriously doubt that they would drop their head and bridle themselves the way they do. Your experience has been molded by a bad experience with a bit and that's fine. We are each influenced by our own experiences, but it was rather offensive to me to read someone who automatically assumes that my horses are uncomfortable in the bit when I see proof every day to the contrary.
Well first I appreciate the tone (if you will) you have used in talking to me in this post I didn't feel as under interrogation as I did with nhariener. The reason I feel bits inflict pain is because I have seen horses mouths with horrible conditions from bits. I am willing to look at the possibility that a bit may be okay if used properly and not as a way to make a horse do something in certain events not all the time. Although I would like my opinion to be looked at as well. I still don't agree with bits and I don't think I ever will, but I could maybe possibly see if somebody needed a bit as a requirement in certain shows I could maybe justify using a bit. I am not saying I like them or support them and I would never use them because I am not sold that they don't cause pain because from what I have seen, heard and read about they do. I could only justify somebody else using a bit in certain events, but I would still feel for the horse. I do not agree with the fact that because I shared my opinion and it was not what other people agreed with I was antagonized for it and told I have a lack of knowledge. That was rude. I understand your reasons for using a bit and a saddle and I have no problem with that because that's your choice and your prerogative. I also have my own choices too and I never antagonized anybody for their beliefs I only shared my own. So just as a recap: I do not think that if somebody uses a bit that they are cruel. I don't agree with bits and as of now still think that may be uncomfortable and inflict pain. Everybody is entitled to their own opinions and choices. I am not antagonizing anybody. I won't ride with a bit or saddle. I will not dislike or have a problem with people who use these things ever. I disagree with the fact that because I was "out of the status quo" if you will that people went all "arms up" Its just my opinion one that I shared because that is part of what you do on a forum.
     
    10-10-2010, 12:06 AM
  #178
Banned
I have nothing really to add to this thread that I haven't said before. I ride in a bit. A curb bit even. I like it that way and the horses I ride like it that way. For as many horses as I have seen be reluctant to take a bit, I have seen that many get hurt by a rider hauling on a 'bitless bridle' or a halter. Just saying.

Emily, please hit the enter button for us. I am not saying this in nastyness but I like to read what everyone has to say but when the words and sentences aren't divied up into paragraphs my poor old eyes cannot read it.
     
    10-10-2010, 12:07 AM
  #179
Showing
The only thing is that those horses with their mouths in horrible condition, that wasn't caused by the bit, that was caused by the person holding the reins. Rough hands will be rough no matter if you have a spade bit or a nylon halter, rough hands will always cause damage. That was the purpose of my original post was to hopefully make people think about matching the bit (or bitless) they use to their own ability and focus on learning to be soft with their hands and work on training instead of resorting to controlling the horse through pain.
     
    10-10-2010, 01:45 AM
  #180
Trained
Quote:
I feel as though your heels are dug and you won't try to look at other peoples opinion at all.
Pot, meet kettle.

Quote:
The reason I feel bits inflict pain is because I have seen horses mouths with horrible conditions from bits.
I have seen faces rubbed raw and bleeding from bitless options - But I have never condemned all bitless bridles as uncomfortable and painful. That would be illogical and ignorant.

Quote:
I also have my own choices too and I never antagonized anybody for their beliefs I only shared my own.
I beg to differ. You stated in your first posts that ALL bits cause pain. Do you think causing pain is cruel? If so, (And I hope so), then you ARE saying that everyone who uses a bit is cruel. Not in so many words but the intent is there.

That is why people are getting frustrated - You haven't said it outright, but it is certainly implied.

*

I'm not swayed either way - I generally ride in bits, but am planning on a bitless for one of my horses for endurance for ease of drinking and eating. I can ride my show horse brideless and bareback, but show him in a bit and saddle. I don't care one bit what other people choose to do with their horses unless it is blatantly cruel. I spend a lot of time educating myself on bit function and mouth conformation and spend a great deal of effort to make sure each of my horses is in the bit that most suits their personality and mouth conformation.
     

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