Will your horse respond to your bit? - Page 20 - The Horse Forum
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post #191 of 647 Old 10-10-2010, 01:03 PM
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You know what yes she is a brilliant ride and I love that she has such a bond that she can do that with her horse, but I have seen people who ride with no bit being able to ride with nothing too. I don't think riding with a bit had anything to do with that. I was never trying to offend anybody. I am sorry that any of you took it that way because believe it or not I didn't join this forum for this or too offend anybody. I personally don't agree with bits, but never meant for anybody to feel attacked because they wear one. We all are on this forum because we love our horses and we want to learn more about them so that we can develop more of a relationship with them. That is what a forum is for. A community for us to grow with our horses isn't it? So if any of you were personally offended then that is not the way I intended it to be. It is a misunderstanding and if so I am sorry that that took place.
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post #192 of 647 Old 10-10-2010, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by lencoo12 View Post
I agree with everything you've said. Recently I came under fire at a riding club meeting for riding my 10 year old QH gelding in a plain "O" ring snaffle bit. This gal is a "trainer", so therefor knows everything. She said if my horse wanted to, that he could run off with me. I reminded her that no bit can guarentee a horse to stop- that training does that, and hanging a bigger/heavier bit in a horse's face doesn't do anything but sweep the issue under the rug. That shut her up. :)

I think you accidentally messed up the quotting box. This is my quote from page #1.

~And on the 6th day God created the Quarter Horse. On the 8th day, he painted the good ones.~
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post #193 of 647 Old 10-10-2010, 01:12 PM
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I am not at all offended by what you said. My point in responding to it is to correct what you have said or implied so the next person who comes on and is new to horses will get all the info.

Bits do not hurt horses in and of them selves. Bit-less is not a bridle that will never hurt a horse. It will. Same as a bit. Just in a different area of the horses head. It is not the bit or lack their of. It is not the spur or lack their of. It is the hands on the other side of the reins. I have seen people who ride in a halter hurt their horse more then I have ever hurt a horse with a bit. They do not have the hands to even be riding a horse yet they THINK b/c they do not use a bit they do not need to improve their hands.

It is not about a bit or no bit. It is about the rider.

I use a bit b/c I can use less of a cue. I can get my horse to perform with barely moving my hand. This is my end goal. Just like Stacys end goal was showing her horses bridleless and no she was no the first to show a reiner bridleless. That honer goes to Rocky Dare.

However take a look at the end of the video when she gets ready to go out. She puts a bridle back on her horse and yet it has a bit on the end.

-I'm so busy... I don't know if I found a rope or lost my horse.
-An Armed Man is a Citizen an unarmed man is a subject.
-Where ever free speech is stifled Tyranny will reign.
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post #194 of 647 Old 10-10-2010, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by nrhareiner View Post
I am not at all offended by what you said. My point in responding to it is to correct what you have said or implied so the next person who comes on and is new to horses will get all the info.

Bits do not hurt horses in and of them selves. Bit-less is not a bridle that will never hurt a horse. It will. Same as a bit. Just in a different area of the horses head. It is not the bit or lack their of. It is not the spur or lack their of. It is the hands on the other side of the reins. I have seen people who ride in a halter hurt their horse more then I have ever hurt a horse with a bit. They do not have the hands to even be riding a horse yet they THINK b/c they do not use a bit they do not need to improve their hands.

It is not about a bit or no bit. It is about the rider.

I use a bit b/c I can use less of a cue. I can get my horse to perform with barely moving my hand. This is my end goal. Just like Stacys end goal was showing her horses bridleless and no she was no the first to show a reiner bridleless. That honer goes to Rocky Dare.

However take a look at the end of the video when she gets ready to go out. She puts a bridle back on her horse and yet it has a bit on the end.

I agree to some extent the rider can be the damage not the equipment, however I also do not believe in bits and that is fine we are both entitled to our own opinions. I shared mine and you shared yours. That is all there is too it. Now somebody can come read your opinion and mine and based on their knowledge make up their own mind. End of story.
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post #195 of 647 Old 10-10-2010, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by nrhareiner View Post
.... put the horse in a round pen and run it in circle for an hour thinking they will end up with a more willing partner.
Well they do. The horse is too exhausted to object to anything.
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post #196 of 647 Old 10-10-2010, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by LusitanoLover View Post
Well they do. The horse is too exhausted to object to anything.

That just seems to be the mentality of a lot of NH, Tree hugging, PETA type people. In stead of training them they want to be friends with the animal and in the end they think the animal will do what they want b/c they are friends. They think running the animal in a circle will bond the horse to them. Animals do not want friends they want leaders. Joining up and banding does not equal a leader.
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-I'm so busy... I don't know if I found a rope or lost my horse.
-An Armed Man is a Citizen an unarmed man is a subject.
-Where ever free speech is stifled Tyranny will reign.
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post #197 of 647 Old 10-10-2010, 05:19 PM
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I am giving suggestions for which bits to use whereas none of you except for Hoofprints in the sand have even debated (or at least said if you had) tried a bitless and (nhariener) and even then (directed to hoofprints in the sand) How long did you give your horse to get used to the bitless? How long did you give your horse to adjust to a bit? I bet the bit is longer.
Did you miss the part where I said I can ride my show horse bridleless, and plan on going bitless on my pony for endurance? I can ride every one of my horses out in a halter.

People here have no issue with bitless. None. Some of us do it or are planning on doing it.

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post #198 of 647 Old 10-10-2010, 05:34 PM
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Okay you know what what is it all of you want me too say? I have a feeling no matter what I say everybody will still be freaking out. I said "
I was never trying to offend anybody. I am sorry that any of you took it that way because believe it or not I didn't join this forum for this or too offend anybody. I personally don't agree with bits, but never meant for anybody to feel attacked because they wear one. We all are on this forum because we love our horses and we want to learn more about them so that we can develop more of a relationship with them. That is what a forum is for. A community for us to grow with our horses isn't it? So if any of you were personally offended then that is not the way I intended it to be. It is a misunderstanding and if so I am sorry that that took place." How can people still be angry after I have said that? Wild spot this conversation/post had nothing to do with you that is why I didn't mention you in it.
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post #199 of 647 Old 10-10-2010, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by nrhareiner View Post
Animals do not want friends they want leaders.
I disagree, but only slightly. What they want is protectors and guides. In other words, are you a stallion or a mare? Because a stallion protects but rarely leads - he drives his herd when he wants to move it. But a mare does lead, not in a hierarchical sense, because the lead changes from individual to individual, but as a guide, here is the best grass, here is the water, here is shade. Domestication is a survival strategy, it is a symbiotic relationship. There is a saying in England "Fair exchange is no theft" and that is what our relationship with horses is, a fair exchange. We make certain demands, in in exchange, they are (largely) kept safe and well, and fed and watered and are able to reproduce successfully.

I am with you all the way concerning training. All the classical methods are the same in essence, gradual progression until you have a horse that you can trust with your life, because its reactions to your requests are lightening fast and completely reliable. As you can see, I breed Lusitanos, horses that are used extensively for classical high school work (as well as cattle herding). But when I read those wonderful books, HACKAMORE REINSMAN and
REINSMAN OF THE WEST by Ed Connell, I was struck by how the basic principles of training are the same, and really haven't changed since Xenophon.
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post #200 of 647 Old 10-10-2010, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by EmilyRosie View Post
And for the last "its the hands sentence" It is your right to think that so go ahead, but I don't personally believe that. I am not saying ALL bits cause pain and discomfort, but I am saying that I think horses (if they knew there was an alternative) would like bitless more. .
I'm not going to get into the full on debate going on between you and others, but I will disagree with your feeling on how your hands effect, or don't effect the horse, and his behavior. Please don't take this like I'm trying to pick on you...this IS just MY observations, and experience.

I just got back from a Clinton Anderson clinic, and his main horse that was being schooled, is a horse that is always tense, tosses his head, jigs, etc...you name it, he does it. However, Guess what 'solved' his problems? Taking the pressure off his face/mouth. Most people use their hands to stop or otherwise slow a horse down. His owner admitted, that that is what she does...The horse's behavior was in his owners hands, literally. What the clinician did was simply work on bending the horse laterally, get him to move his feet willingly, and to stop when he sat down (or one reined him, if he didn't listen to his seat)...not once did he lean on the bit, or try to pull the horse to a stop...the horse calmed down, his head came down, he relaxed, and he stopped wanting to move forward everytime the rider asked him to stop...again, the horse's behavior was directly tied to the rider's hands.

So yes, a horse's behavior, whether good or bad, or anywhere inbetween can and often times will be related to how his handler handles his mouth/face (bitless). I have had horses who respond better bitless, and others, like my current mare who seem to prefer her snaffle bits to pressure on her face (bitless). Does she respond bitless? Sure, but she's NOT as relaxed, so that is what makes the difference for me...and I broke her in bitless so it's not like I didn't have time to evaluate how she performed (rope halter, as per norm for me when breaking in a horse).

Everytime I step on a horse, whether it's one I'm training, or my own mare, keep a mental check on how my hands are handling the horse...ideally the only thing the reins should 'control' are the horse's head and neck; your seat and legs are what control his shoulder, ribcage, and hips...ultimately all forward, backward, sideways, etc, movement.

"The ideal horseman has the courage of a lion, the patience of a saint, and the hands of a woman..."
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