Will your horse respond to your bit? - Page 28
   

       The Horse Forum > Training Horses > Horse Training

Will your horse respond to your bit?

This is a discussion on Will your horse respond to your bit? within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

    Like Tree156Likes

     
    LinkBack Thread Tools
        12-21-2010, 01:30 PM
      #271
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
    Not if used properly. It takes less pressure to get a horse to respond to a bit then it does a bit-less bridle. I ride with a lot of slack in my reins. I can get my horse to bridle up with just moving my hand about an inch. You could not do this with a bit-less bridle b/c there is not the response with a Bit-less bridle like you get with a bit.

    It is the same as the difference between a snaffle and a curb. I get a better, faster respond with less pressure with a curb bit then I would with a snaffle. However you need to start with a snaffle so the horse learns to respond to pressure.
    Have you ever thought of WHY your horse responds faster with a bit? It is because pressure is being put on a more sensitive part of a horses mouth.
         
    Sponsored Links
    Advertisement
     
        12-21-2010, 01:43 PM
      #272
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by thumpthumpmyhorseshooves    
    What you are writing is almost my point. Why put something in a horses mouth, when you don't have to? Bitless bridles correctly fitted are JUST as useful as bits. I know what reining is, but I still think you can get the same result with a bitless bridle. Can you be 100% sure that the bit is not putting your horse in any discomfort? Bitless bridles put pressure OUTSIDE of the horse not inside a sensitive mouth. I disagree with people saying it is refining that's like saying its just touching some things up. Spurs are the same thing people say "refining", I disagree. Pressure points on the horses face can be taken advantage of to use extremely light pressure and get the same result, but knowing your horse isn't in discomfort. A person can take a wrong fitting bitless put it on and ride awfully and mark up the horses face (obviously), but if you had a big batch of apples and you were eating them and ONE of them was bad, could you trust that the rest are too? No and if you do that would be silly. Same with halters anybody can hurt any horse with any item of tack. Doesn't mean that's the wrong piece of tack just means its the wrong rider. Having said that I still disagree that a great rider can make a bit as comforting as a bitless bridle. I ride at a bitless barn and I have yet to see a horse that they cannot control being bitless.
    So you think that just b/c the pressure is on the outside of the horse that it is some how less painful? I call B/S on that one.

    Also have a lot of experience with different types of bits and even bit-less bridles and how they work. You WILL NOT get the same results with a bit-less bridle as you will get with a bit. It is all about refinement. Same with spurs. It is all about refinement of cues. Using LESS pressure not more. I can run my horse full out in a circle and move them over to hit a marker with less then an ounce of pressure from my leg with a spur on. If I take the spur off It would take a lot more pressure to get that job done.

    Also yes a good rider with a well trained horse or even a green horse can and do make a horse more comfortable with a bit then a bit-less bridle b/c there is less pressure to get the response needed.

    All my horses eat their bits. I put the bit in front of them and they eat it up. If they associated that bit with pain they would not do that.
         
        12-21-2010, 01:50 PM
      #273
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by thumpthumpmyhorseshooves    
    Have you ever thought of WHY your horse responds faster with a bit? It is because pressure is being put on a more sensitive part of a horses mouth.
    That is part of it but it is also b/c the horse can feel the smallest movement of my hand. Think about it this way. I ride with 9 foot reins. Typically they have at least a 1 foot droop to them from my hand to the bit. My horses respond to the movement of my hand with in the first inch of movement. You can not get that with a bit-less bridle or even a snaffle. You would have to take all the slack out of the rein and put pressure on the horses mouths of face to get that response.

    Once the horse under stands what the movement means from the reins/bit it takes no real pressure to get them to respond. The cue has been refined so much that it takes very little to nothing to get them to do what I want.
         
        12-21-2010, 04:00 PM
      #274
    Trained
    Thumpthump,

    What would you suggest for horses that hate face pressure?

    I am not against any bit, bitless bridle or anything else that may be out there (Except for mule bits and those crazy twisted wire/gag/hack combos).

    I will ride in what my horse is most comfortable in and performs best in. So far, for every horse but one, it has been a bit. The only one who went better in a hack was very badly trained and was still badly trained in the hack, just a bit quieter.

    I spend a huge amount of time finding out which bit my horse is most comfortable carrying. I have a LOT of bits :]

    No two horses are the same. By limiting yourself to bitless because you think it is better for the horse you are actually closing your mind to options that may suit some horses better!
         
        12-21-2010, 04:52 PM
      #275
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
    So you think that just b/c the pressure is on the outside of the horse that it is some how less painful? I call B/S on that one.

    Also have a lot of experience with different types of bits and even bit-less bridles and how they work. You WILL NOT get the same results with a bit-less bridle as you will get with a bit. It is all about refinement. Same with spurs. It is all about refinement of cues. Using LESS pressure not more. I can run my horse full out in a circle and move them over to hit a marker with less then an ounce of pressure from my leg with a spur on. If I take the spur off It would take a lot more pressure to get that job done.

    Also yes a good rider with a well trained horse or even a green horse can and do make a horse more comfortable with a bit then a bit-less bridle b/c there is less pressure to get the response needed.

    All my horses eat their bits. I put the bit in front of them and they eat it up. If they associated that bit with pain they would not do that.
    Yeah I do think it is less painful and I don't care if you " call B/S on that one ". Bottom line is that bits are for riders NOT for horses. Your horses most likely "eat up their bits" because they don't know anything else! It is how they are raised! If they have been showed something else how much time did you give them to adjust? Bits are for riders not horses. Let me see how easy I can make this for me? Do you care about natural horsemanship at ALL?
         
        12-21-2010, 04:55 PM
      #276
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
    That is part of it but it is also b/c the horse can feel the smallest movement of my hand. Think about it this way. I ride with 9 foot reins. Typically they have at least a 1 foot droop to them from my hand to the bit. My horses respond to the movement of my hand with in the first inch of movement. You can not get that with a bit-less bridle or even a snaffle. You would have to take all the slack out of the rein and put pressure on the horses mouths of face to get that response.

    Once the horse under stands what the movement means from the reins/bit it takes no real pressure to get them to respond. The cue has been refined so much that it takes very little to nothing to get them to do what I want.
    That is my point! Horses can feel the smallest movements because you have put a bit in most sensitive part of their mouth! OF COURSE they will respond faster, but forgive me for thinking the horse would be thought about in this equation. Refining is stupid to me bits, spurs, grass reins all these things are for people who can't control their horse so they add a new device. You can control your horse with a bitless comfortably so why add a bit? Refining?! Stupid that is for you not your horse. Horses were not meant to have bits or shoes.
         
        12-21-2010, 04:58 PM
      #277
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wild_spot    
    Thumpthump,

    What would you suggest for horses that hate face pressure?

    I am not against any bit, bitless bridle or anything else that may be out there (Except for mule bits and those crazy twisted wire/gag/hack combos).

    I will ride in what my horse is most comfortable in and performs best in. So far, for every horse but one, it has been a bit. The only one who went better in a hack was very badly trained and was still badly trained in the hack, just a bit quieter.

    I spend a huge amount of time finding out which bit my horse is most comfortable carrying. I have a LOT of bits :]

    No two horses are the same. By limiting yourself to bitless because you think it is better for the horse you are actually closing your mind to options that may suit some horses better!
    Have you ridden a horse that hates face pressure? 1. Any bridle puts pressure on the face. 2. How would you know? 3. How much time did you give the horse to adjust? And 4. Was the person riding correctly or was the horse confused?

    I disagree that there is a horse out there that can't be ridden bitless, but once again if the horse doesn't understand right away its forget about it he/she just doesn't like it! Its rider before horse,shows are the most important thing. This is why I stopped showing it becomes ALL about the rider what about connecting with your horse?!
         
        12-21-2010, 05:08 PM
      #278
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by thumpthumpmyhorseshooves    
    Yeah I do think it is less painful and I don't care if you " call B/S on that one ". Bottom line is that bits are for riders NOT for horses.

    Not sure how you figure that one. A horse likes and prefer very straight forward and precise direction which they get from a bit. Bits when used properly convey a very very precise cue to the horse. In that there is no need to pull or keep asking. Again my horses respond to the movement of my hand with in the first inch. You will not get that bit-less. No matter how hard you try. You will have to take the slack out and make contact just like you do with a snaffle but more so.

    Your horses most likely "eat up their bits" because they don't know anything else! It is how they are raised! If they have been showed something else how much time did you give them to adjust? Bits are for riders not horses. Let me see how easy I can make this for me? Do you care about natural horsemanship at ALL?
    They eat the bit up b/c they love what they do. They do not feel any discomfort from the bit. If they did they would not like the bit in their mouth and it would be hard to get them to take the bit.

    There is nothing natural about what we do with horses. There is no real natural horsemanship. It is more marketing then anything. What I care about is that the horse responds to what I ask with the smallest amount of effort.

    I want you to try something. Go out to your horse put on your bit-less bridle and then take off your reins and re attach them with a piece of thread. Not string thread. See how much you can get your horse to do before it brakes. I can get my horse to run a full reining pattern with fast turns precise rollbacks and 35 foot sliding stops that way.
         
        12-21-2010, 05:14 PM
      #279
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by thumpthumpmyhorseshooves    
    Have you ridden a horse that hates face pressure? 1. Any bridle puts pressure on the face. 2. How would you know? 3. How much time did you give the horse to adjust? And 4. Was the person riding correctly or was the horse confused?

    I disagree that there is a horse out there that can't be ridden bitless, but once again if the horse doesn't understand right away its forget about it he/she just doesn't like it! Its rider before horse,shows are the most important thing. This is why I stopped showing it becomes ALL about the rider what about connecting with your horse?!
    You know what they say about people who assume.

    You seem to think b/c people use a bit they do not care about their horse. If they show that they can not connect with their horses. My horses LOVE to show. They eat it up. They get depressed if they can not show and go places. My horses know when it is time to show. You put your hat on and they put on their game face and go out and run for all they are worth and are ready to do it again.

    It is not b/c they do not know anything else but b/c they love it. They would rather go show then go on a trail ride and yes I do trail ride my horses. They prefer to show. They are bred to rein and they love it.
         
        12-21-2010, 05:19 PM
      #280
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
    They eat the bit up b/c they love what they do. They do not feel any discomfort from the bit. If they did they would not like the bit in their mouth and it would be hard to get them to take the bit.

    There is nothing natural about what we do with horses. There is no real natural horsemanship. It is more marketing then anything. What I care about is that the horse responds to what I ask with the smallest amount of effort.

    I want you to try something. Go out to your horse put on your bit-less bridle and then take off your reins and re attach them with a piece of thread. Not string thread. See how much you can get your horse to do before it brakes. I can get my horse to run a full reining pattern with fast turns precise rollbacks and 35 foot sliding stops that way.
    1. I USED to ride with a bit until I realized the errors of my ways so I am never putting ANYTHING in my horses mouth again ever . 2. Natural horsemanship DOES exist. I can go out to my horse get her running around the round pen with nothing on her and get her to stop come in and follow me around the round pen, go when I go, stop when I stop, THAT is horsemanship. My trainer does AMAZING things without bits. So don't you dare try to tell me it hardly exists.

    3. Have you transformed your mouth into a horses mouth and worn a bit? No, so you also can't tell me that they aren't in any discomfort because you don't know. I disagree that they would just not take the bit if they didn't want it. What do you do when your horses won't take the bit? Make them take it? When you started them did they gulp it up right away?

    Horses are beings like us and the way I see it they ask things from us and we ask things from them. A horse needs a leader. Putting a bit in their mouth so they roll over and do whatever you want them to do isn't being a leader. Listening to your horse, recognizing the questions they ask THAT is the important thing and that is what it is supposed to be about.

    "I want you to try something. Go out to your horse put on your bit-less bridle and then take off your reins and re attach them with a piece of thread. Not string thread. See how much you can get your horse to do before it brakes."

    I have no idea what you are talking about that doesn't make any difference. Care to explain?
         

    Thread Tools

    Similar Threads
    Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
    horse will not respond to pressure horseshoes Horse Training 11 08-17-2010 09:29 AM
    How to respond to a bolting horse Barry Godden Horse Articles 22 09-29-2009 03:32 PM
    Horse Doesn't Respond to Downward Transitions on Longeline - Need Help! harryhoudini Horse Training 3 06-23-2009 04:59 PM
    getting horse to respond to aids dreamrideredc Horse Training 6 06-08-2009 11:17 PM
    How do I get my horse to respond to my leg? xilikeggs0 Horse Training 8 01-30-2009 07:03 PM



    All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:23 PM.


    Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
    Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
    Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0