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Will your horse respond to your bit?

151K views 646 replies 192 participants last post by  DanielDauphin 
#1 · (Edited)
If not, have you considered why?

Recently, I have seen an influx of threads asking advice about "what bit to put my horse in because I don't have control of him/her?" As opposed to retyping my opinion several times, I just decided to have a bit of a 'rant' thread.

First off, if your horse simply refuses to listen to the bit, then the problem isn't with the bit. The problem lies with what training (or lack thereof) and handling the horse is getting. The fact is that 99% of the time that a horse is ignoring the bit, slinging his head, nosing out, or any other action that most people associate as a "bit problem", it isn't the bit at all. It is a terrible thing to see that so many people are not being taught how to properly cue a horse with the bit. They almost always have solid contact and in order to stop or turn, they just pull harder. Those people have hard hands. HARD HANDS MAKE HARD HORSES.

If the horse isn't as responsive as you like in the bit that you have, then work on him in the bit that you have. It is better to go back to a simple snaffle for schooling or corrective work though because it is one of the mildest bits that you can find. If a horse is responsive in a simple snaffle, then you can ride him in anything; however, if you ride him in a twisted wire gag for him to be responsive, then you would have no control in anything less. All the time we see it: a horse gets hard in the snaffle so they move him up to a twisted snaffle, then he gets hard in that so they move him up to a Tom Thumb bit (one of the most worthless bits ever made in my opinion), then he gets hard in that so they move him up to a solid mouth curb with longer shanks, then he gets hard in that so they move him up to a gag bit or a combination bit like those you see with a hard rope noseband and gag bit. Before you know it, the horse is being ridden in a 1/8 inch double twisted wire gag bit. Then 'what a miracle' the horse ends up hard to that too and at this point, they say "Well he is a stupid horse" or "He's stubborn" or "He gets excited". They never for one instant consider that every problem that horse has is rider error and by that point, the poor horse is usually beyond the point of no return.

Not many people are concerned with learning how to be soft with their hands and those that aren't will always blame the horse or the bit for every problem they have. You teach softness by being soft. You maintain softness by being soft. There are certain times, especially when handling a green horse, that being hard for an instant is required but it takes someone who understands horses and knows softness to know how much 'hard' is required and when it will be beneficial to the horse. Many riders should spend their lifetime riding with nothing more than a snaffle because they don't understand when, how, or why to use the bite that a curb bit has. Even fewer people have any business using a twisted wire bit for any reason. Those bits should be reserved for only the most experienced and talented horsemen to use on only the most outlaw horses and only for a few days to re-gain respect for the bit. They should never be used for everyday riding by your typical 'fun' rider, or even a competition rider.

Many horses that end up hard due to improper riding can be re-trained to be soft-ish, however, they will never be as soft as a horse that was taught from the beginning to be responsive to the slightest cues. If you are having trouble at the lope or gallop, then it isn't a sudden problem just because of the change of gait. The issues are there at the walk and trot, they are just more subtle. Any gaps in training at the slower gaits will reveal themselves at speed.

No horse that got the proper training or riding needs to be moved up from a snaffle. We, as riders, choose to move to a different bit because of our preferances or training goals. I choose to ride in a ported curb because I ride one handed on a loose rein and a ported curb is designed for that, a snaffle is not. However, I can still stick any of my horses in a snaffle bit and they respond the same way. If I rode all my horses on light contact and direct reined, would I still use the curb? Absolutely not because it isn't designed for that and it is too much bit for that type of riding. The more advanced bits are designed for finesse, not power.

Anyone who says their horse needs to be in this special bit is just kidding themselves. The horse needs that bit because his training and handling dictates that the rider needs that bit to communicate because their hands only know how to scream. They cannot understand the sublety of a whisper and as a result, their horse has learned to tune out all but the loudest of screams.

Are there horses out there that seem to be immune to the softness of the snaffle from day one? Of course, but those are very rare and that immunity is generally paired with an outlaw nature that is dangerous to handle anyway. If a horse can be trained to accept a rider, then they can be trained to be soft to a snaffle bit.

Some horses misbehave in the bit due to a physical issue, whether it is a tooth problem or a nerve problem in their mouth or some other reason that carrying a bit would be painful. Some riders simply choose to ride bitless. Does that make them less knowledgeable or have a lower worth as a horseman than someone who rides in a bit? No. However, the bitless options out there are no different than the bit options. There are very mild choices like a simple halter or sidepull, there are more advanced options like the bosal, and then there are ridiculous options like those chain nosed mechanical hackamores. The same rules apply to those as they do to bits; stick with the mildest choice unless you need more finesse as the training level progresses.

To make a long story short, a bigger bit is designed to create finesse later in training, they are not meant to simply give a rider more power. A power struggle with a horse will always end up with the horse ruined and the rider frustrated and hateful.

Results come from what you put in their head,
not what you put on it.
 
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#65 ·
I have to tell you what I discovered a couple of weeks ago. I went to this garage sale and saw this woman had that completely awful hybrid bit which is a kimblewick but instead of a port it had a snaffle link. In some ways it was fortunate that she didn't know how it was supposed to work.The curb chain hooks were missing from the holes. She had the reins on the cheekpiece rings and the cheekpieces coming out of the bottom rein slots (now top). I asked if the bit or bridle were for sale( because I was going to take the awful bit home and destroy it). She said no she rides her horse in it. I said 'do you know this bit is upside down?' She didn't believe me. When I persisted she said 'I have a fyord and he doesn't care what is in his mouth'. I tried to show her how the bit was milled to sit in the mouth just one way but she wasn't having any of it.
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#66 ·
I have to say I agree, but many people know well I am stuck in a situation where I do not have control over the bitting of the horses I ride despite the fact that I hate it.
One thing does bother me. Today I went to a horse show and I saw a long lost friend who had become snooty thanks to being on her fancy horses that she clearly rides so much better because they cost more. The first thing she said to me was "Hey! Wow...You've really become cruel. You're using a gag? You're a horrible person." I proceeded to tell her that it wasn't my choice. She persisted, telling me how much better she was as a rider because she used a plain snaffle. I wanted to tell her how badly I wanted to train my horse to go in a french link, but she simply walked away...Rather snootily. When she was warming up her horse, it wouldn't listen to her one bit. Does she know that you still have to train horses to get them to listen? I commend her on not resorting to a harsher bit to solve her problems, but at least TRAIN your horse once you do!
I'm in a pretty sour mood because of this and the show getting rained out, I don't want to rain (no pun intended?) on your little snaffle parade. People bashing gags all the time gets me down a little, so I thought I'd share my side.

...In no way do I encourage anyone to disregard this thread. It is a lovely post.
 
#70 ·
My username is kind of a disclaimer but...I've noticed horses make a HUGE change after the bit comes out of their mouth. Have any of you people having issues with horses responding tried a well placed hackamore? The horse calms down and is more willing. They actually THINK and have to make decisions as opposed to react to a yanking on their mouth. Just something to think about.
 
#71 ·
That's not true for all horses Bitless. I have my boy in a bitless for the majority of the time. However, not all horses will work well without a bit. Don't make a claim that everyone that uses a bit is 'yanking on their mouth' because that isn't the case.
 
#72 ·
That was a bad choice of words. I was referring to the first post talking about "heavy hands" and how that's important to consider when you're picking a bit. But when you say not all horses, do you mean on the first try, or after a while of work. I just want to understand others' points of view.
 
#75 ·
Hackamores can be extremely rough on a horse if the rider has hard hands. As Solon and Smrobs said too, not all horses like bitless options. It really depends on what kind of pressure your horse prefers. Some really dislike pressure on their face, others on their tongue, others on the poll.

Any good owner will take the time to figure out what works for their horse and not rely on some dogma be it bitless, snaffle, or curb.
 
#76 ·
Hackamores can be extremely rough on a horse if the rider has hard hands. As Solon and Smrobs said too, not all horses like bitless options. It really depends on what kind of pressure your horse prefers. Some really dislike pressure on their face, others on their tongue, others on the poll.

Any good owner will take the time to figure out what works for their horse and not rely on some dogma be it bitless, snaffle, or curb.
Well said! I've used a french link snaffle with my green mare for over a year now, and we CANNOT get her to stop hanging on it...even when you ask and then release, she follows your release down and hangs...she will quite literally pull you out of the tack! Even my trainer, who is well respected and has YEARS of experience training people AND horses, was having trouble with her in a snaffle. We tried a figure 8 bridle before going to another bit, and my horse HATED it!! Threw her head around, made a fuss and ran around more on the forehand than ever. I was feeling pretty defeated because all of my friends used figure 8's and they did wonders for their horses.

So my trainer wanted to give a curb bit a try...we used a double jointed, same thing as the french link, but it was a tom thumb pelham. IT WAS AMAZING! At first, she started to do her same old hanging, but with the use of the curb, she basically "corrected herself" into stopping it. After a few minutes, it became evident that she really liked the bit...she was licking and chewing and a little foamy, she stopped hanging and started to transition back onto her rear, and I got on after my trainer worked her and OH MAN it felt like I was riding a different mare!!! She was light in my hands, balanced, and she seemed HAPPIER! :D

That continues to be my experience with her, and my trainer plans to put her back into a french link snaffle again in the future, once we can get her to understand her "job" and that she should be back on her rear and not on the forehand pulling the rider out of the seat. It's been a wonderful tool for us and one that my horse has really been happy with, so I definitely agree that it's all about what your horse prefers and goes well in...not all curb bits are "evil" and not every horse is happy in a snaffle bit.
 
#78 ·
I'm really not trying to hijack this thread, but I do have a couple of bit questions.

On my old mare, Sugar, I used a "racing snaffle," which was basically a regular snaffle bit that had largish rubber covers over the bit - but it was still jointed. some of my friends that had been riding and training horses for years were a little concerned at first that it was not enough bit for her, as she could be pretty stubborn at times. However, if I used any other bit, she was an impossible witch - head tossing, bucking - you name it, she did it. Same thing with a hackamore, so a racing snaffle it was. However, I was told she "carried" the bit, and I was lucky she didn't run off with me.

What did they mean by "carrying the bit?" In all honesty, I'm a terrible rider, and learned the hard way to stay off her mouth. It did teach me to have softish hands, and even though I rode in the racing snaffle, I rode with a loose rein, and Sugar neckreined very well. Almost too well, sometimes it seemed that if I just thought about a change in direction, she did it - almost like she had power steering...

Dancer is shaping up to be just like Sugar was - at least so far. However, she seems to go well in a hackamore - but we haven't really ridden her enough to tell. I don't want to go with a harsh bit - a snaffle is fine with me. But is/was that racing snaffle a harsh bit? I sure wish I could find that bit again. I found my old one, but after nearly 20 years, so had the rats... :-(
 
#79 ·
Was it something similar to this?
Flexi Racing Dee Snaffle Bit, Flexi Racing Bits and Dee Snaffle Bit

If so, then no it wasn't a harsh bit. From looking at what is sold on the net as racing snaffles, they all seem to be fairly mild with large diameter mouths. I believe that is probably because racehorses are trained to push into the bit for balance (or something LOL) and a bigger diameter is nicer on their mouth. However, the bigger diameter can also lose some of the more subtle cues and since it is a milder bit, makes it more likely that the horse would be able to ignore it. Most times, a horse that carries the bit kinda braces their tongue against the bit so that it doesn't really effect the bars of the mouth (vaqueros spend years teaching a horse to carry the spade bit in just that manner) but on a horse that isn't taught to be responsive in this state finds it easy to use this to render the bit ineffective. I actually prefer a horse that will carry the bit instead of just pack it because they are more aware of the smaller movements of my hands.
 
#80 ·
No, that's not like the one I had. It was an "O" ring and had REALLY large rubber covers on the bit. Nearly as thick as my thumb.

Sugar was very responsive to riding cues. She would change gaits depending on where you held the reins, the higher you lifted them, the faster she went. (Needless to say, I spent most of my riding time with my hand resting on the saddle horn as we moped along. Bad riding habit, but oh well, I wasn't showing or anything.) Drop the reins and she stopped dead. It was really odd the way she was. The only time I had a problem with her blowing through the bit, she was just in a really bad mood. She would respond to the one rein stop, but that was back before I had heard it called that. I was just told to pull the inside rein when she misbehaved like that, so she would circle around.
 
#82 ·
#83 ·
I agree. But I still maintain that going bitless and eventually progressing to a jumping hackamore (pretty much a basic English bridle with the bit taken out, and a slightly more substantial noseband) is something everyone should give a shot. If it doesn't work, oh well. But it's amazing the difference it makes.
 
#85 ·
But it's amazing the difference it makes.

This is the statement that I always have a problem with. It should say "But it's amazing the difference it CAN make."

I've tried the bitless route with my horse and he highly disliked it. So much that he actually injured himself because he was concentrating on how much he disliked the face pressure.

Soda is ridden in a french link snaffle and I rarely put anything but the softest pressure on it. I'm not a perfect rider but I'm well aware of the impact of my hands and their place in the cycle of asking for a response. I'm not a hard handed rider in a snaffle, curb, or bitless but my horse has shown me that he doesn't like the bitless route.

Granted I was using the Dr. Cook bridle and it may be that that particular mechanism is what he has a problem with. It's possible that he may be completely happy with a bosal, hackamore, or a simple sidepull. But he's also perfectly happy in his simple french link. I'd know it if he wasn't, he's a tempermental sensitive boy and he lets you know very quickly when he doesn't like what you're doing. I joke with my friends sometimes that he's training me more than I'm training him. :lol:

Either which way he will be tried out and trained in (if he doesn't show extreme dislike or discomfort) in a bosal, curb, and sidepull. But for now he's happy and I'm getting my point across in a gentle teaching manner so it works for us.

Sorry if I'm hammering on this point too much, but it's a pet peeve of mine how someone (not specifically you Bitless) can be so adamant that one way is the "one true path." Especially with something as individual as a horse's preference. *steps off pedastal* :D
 
#84 ·
First a well trained horse it does not matter what bit you put in their mouth they should respond in kind. I bitless bridle is not an option for nor would I use one if it was.

It does not matter what you put on your horse from bittless bridle, snaffle to a cathedral port shank bit they can all be very harsh bits. Does not matter. It is all in the hands of the rider.
 
#89 ·
Has nothing to do with bonding with your horse. It is called training. I can drop bridle on my horses and run a full reining pattern. WHy? B/C they are well trained horses. Does not matter what I put in their mouth. Rules dictate what can and can not be used. So that is what I have hanging in my tack room. Haters are not allowed.
 
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#91 ·
That's kind of not true though - I had to train my boy in a halter because I could find a headstall big enough to fit his head. He was so responsive it was amazing. I don't think that would be the case for all horses, so that's why I say it's partially not true!
 
#92 ·
Yeah I can ride Soda just fine in a halter, but it's frustrating for HIM to try and learn the tiny distinctions that distinguish a well-trained horse from a plod in it. A halter doesn't allow you to explain the minute directions in specific maneuvers. I can teach him something much quicker with a bit that allows him to understand my smallest nuance than a halter that allows very little room for the subtle signal. I know he appreciates it as he's not a terribly paitent boy.

As for that whole bond thing. Soda seeks me out every single day whenever I'm in the paddock or pasture. This is a horse that sees me letting the dogs out of the kennel and will sit and whinny for me to come hang out with him. He whickers every morning and evening when I feed. In the afternoon when I'm working on barn projects in the paddock or just relaxing reading a book (yes, I'm pathetic I sit in my paddock and read books) he comes and stands by me and lips my books. He'll sit with me for hours. Don't tell me that I need a better bond with my horse because I don't train/ride him exclusively in a halter.
 
#94 ·
Like I said, I really think different horses respond differently. I taught everything in the halter first (bending at the poll etc.) then found a bit, then found Dr. Cook's bitless.

I think it's too bad there are restrictions on what kind of bits you have to have to show in different areas. People should be able to use whatever works for their horse.
 
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