Will your horse respond to your bit? - Page 44 - The Horse Forum

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post #431 of 647 Old 02-15-2011, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by nrhareiner View Post
I use a curb bit to do the refining I need. First b/c that is what you show in and also you need less movement of your hand. Which a snaffle will not give you however it is a lot closer then a halter or even a bit-less bridle.
My horse does moves off of the slightest of hand and that was done in the halter not a bit. If my rope even heads toward the neck they read my body position and know to move off of it. When I ride it's to improve how in tuned my horse are to my body, I ride of my seat not hands and they have been trained to do so.
So that is where we are going to differ in our opinions my horses are prof that it can be done so I say it can be done and you say it can't. Each to there own

Last edited by Tabycat; 02-15-2011 at 11:33 AM.
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post #432 of 647 Old 02-15-2011, 11:36 AM
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Never said it can not be done. What I am saying is that it is more efficient to just start in a bit as that will get you to the same place a bit faster. No real pun intended. Ok maybe.

There is so much time spent at the beginning butting a very solid basics on the horse that there is no need to start them in anything but a snaffle. I would wager that you do not spend several months at the walk before you move on to the trot. I do as dose my trainer. It take a good 2 years to get a reiner ready to show and about 5 years before I would even consider them close to finished. So at the beginning a lot of time is put into getting the horse to move off your leg seat bit and reins. Every inch of their body. Not just one part and then this is repeated at the trot. By the time you get to the lope everything is there. So there is not much use to start them in any thing other then a snaffle.

That is not saying you can not or should not if you wish however to me it is a bit of a wast time.

-I'm so busy... I don't know if I found a rope or lost my horse.
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post #433 of 647 Old 02-15-2011, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by nrhareiner View Post
Never said it can not be done. What I am saying is that it is more efficient to just start in a bit as that will get you to the same place a bit faster. No real pun intended. Ok maybe.

There is so much time spent at the beginning butting a very solid basics on the horse that there is no need to start them in anything but a snaffle. I would wager that you do not spend several months at the walk before you move on to the trot. I do as dose my trainer. It take a good 2 years to get a reiner ready to show and about 5 years before I would even consider them close to finished. So at the beginning a lot of time is put into getting the horse to move off your leg seat bit and reins. Every inch of their body. Not just one part and then this is repeated at the trot. By the time you get to the lope everything is there. So there is not much use to start them in any thing other then a snaffle.

That is not saying you can not or should not if you wish however to me it is a bit of a wast time.
You are correct your do spend a lot more time at the walk then I do and that is wonderful.

But the biggest thing that differs between you and I are our goals. Your goal is to show and mine is to have my horse ride brideless. No bit so I must take the mesures I need to get there as do you. For me putting a bit on defeats the purpose as to you putting a halter on defeats yours.
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post #434 of 647 Old 02-15-2011, 11:58 AM
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The thing is that I can get there just as easy as you can. I can and do drop bridle quite a bit when working the horses. More for me then for them. The thing is when I do it I am doing it at speed and asking for turns and sliding stops. Which they will do easily and readily. Reiners have been showing horses bridleless since the 70's.

The end goal should not be brildless or bit less but a well trained good responsive horse who is willing and effortless guided.

If you get to your goal then that is really all that counts. However do not think just b/c my goal is to show that my horses can not and do not do the same thing.

It is like people seem to think b/c my horses are show horses they they can not trail ride. Trail riding is a big part of the training. Even my trainer takes the horses in training on trail rides about once a week in the summer.

-I'm so busy... I don't know if I found a rope or lost my horse.
-An Armed Man is a Citizen an unarmed man is a subject.
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post #435 of 647 Old 02-15-2011, 12:50 PM
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Lets get it straight you are bullying, not making fun of someone. I wonder what your parents would think if they saw this?

And what bothers me most is that you think you get the right to bully when someone else as you put it "has no respect for opinions that disagree with hers, but is unable to defend her own opinion in a logical, thoughtful manner when her inconsistencies are pointed out." And you are doing the same thing if not 1000 x worse .

You guys are bullying your point through instead of doing it in the " logical, thoughtful manner" you didn't get through to her so you turn to this instead.
So please... don't think for one second think you have a right to bully someone to teach them a lesson and please don't try and convince me that you are making fun of someone because they brought it upon them selves, wrong girl you have made the choice to do it to them and no one has the right to do that to another human being. Call it for what it is and put the blame where it belongs.

I didn't make a choice to do anything to anybody because I personally never "made fun of her". All I did was ask a few questions to try to clarify where she stood on some things.

The point of my post was that, in my opinion, some people do bring teasing upon themselves. If you come onto a forum, tell everybody who does things a certain way that they're completely, 100% wrong, and then refuse to listen when they try to explain, but just keep saying, "You're wrong, you're mean, you're so cruel to your horse" - honestly, what do you expect is going to happen? How do you think most people are going to react to you? People are only human and many are going to get irritated, especially when they know how much they love and care for their horses.

I don't in any way, shape, or form condone bullying, but this wasn't bullying. There's a huge difference between being an innocent victim of bullying and being an agitator who's looking for trouble. IMO, she came here to pick a fight and she got a fight.
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post #436 of 647 Old 02-15-2011, 04:20 PM
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But the biggest thing that differs between you and I are our goals. Your goal is to show and mine is to have my horse ride brideless. No bit so I must take the mesures I need to get there as do you. For me putting a bit on defeats the purpose as to you putting a halter on defeats yours
Bridleless is a result of good training in a bit.

I can take my bridle off and gallop, haunch turn, rollback, back up - Anything I can do in a bit I can do bridleless, with no practice, because of good training.
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post #437 of 647 Old 02-16-2011, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by wild_spot View Post
Bridleless is a result of good training in a bit.

I can take my bridle off and gallop, haunch turn, rollback, back up - Anything I can do in a bit I can do bridleless, with no practice, because of good training.
not specifically.

I don't recommend people with closed minds read the following, because it's bound to start a debate.

Recently i've started experimenting with a means of starting a horse bridleless (bareback, the saddling process would complicate it enough to have it take years possibly, and does a rope around their neck count as a bridle?) and it's going very well so far. Not been bucked, and the particular unhandled horse i'm trying it out on hasn't taken a step out of line yet. So far she walks up to greet me when she sees me in the pasture, we can mount, walk around, steer, stop & backup on command with the rope and legs as my aids. The rest will come in time though as those are the prerequisites for pretty much everything other than performance disciplines. She'll be a good bridleless riding horse though. Only equipment used is about 5ft of fairly thin polyester rope. Puts most "natural" horsemanship to shame IMO (even though it's based on 3 things, something i've been doing for a while that I found out was loosely similar to "join up" by monty roberts for getting the horse accepting of my leadership & happy in my presence, parelli's "friendly game" for mounting and dismounting, and parelli's "porcupine game" for getting her sensitive to the rope aids)

The process is certainly taking it's time. I've been at it with this horse for 1+ hours daily for about a month just doing those 3 things, and i've tried different things regarding it on saddle/halter broke horses for up to 6 months.

It's certainly not practical, more just something i'm doing out of curiosity. And of course I wouldn't recommend even thinking about such a thing unless you know exactly what your doing. It is extremely dangerous and takes very much patience.

I guess it's something that will take a very long time to understand properly if your used to doing things a certain way and with certain equipment, but how do you think the first person who ever encountered a horse did it?
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post #438 of 647 Old 02-16-2011, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by wild_spot View Post
Bridleless is a result of good training in a bit.

I can take my bridle off and gallop, haunch turn, rollback, back up - Anything I can do in a bit I can do bridleless, with no practice, because of good training.
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post #439 of 647 Old 02-18-2011, 08:28 PM
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Softness is definitely a key to good horsemanship. My sister angers me so much with constantly pulling on my mare's mouth, I'd just like to slap her, but apparently that's not nice. But neither is bullying a horse by trying to controll it intirely with a bit shoved in it's face.

But I really know almost nothing about the different types of bits. I don't even know the type that I use. I think this site needs some sort of gallery of bits for those people like me with no brain.
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post #440 of 647 Old 02-18-2011, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
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There is a couple of threads that have been stickied under the "Tack and Equipment" section. There is one that discussed snaffles and another that discusses curbs.

Always remember that feeling of looking at a big, open country over the ears of a good horse, seeing a new trail unwind ahead of you, and that ever-spectacular view from the top of the ridge!!! Follow my training blog: http://robertsontraining.blogspot.com/
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