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Will your horse respond to your bit?

This is a discussion on Will your horse respond to your bit? within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        03-15-2011, 05:03 PM
      #451
    Trained
    Actually, a baucher has no leverage action because the reins do not attach lower than the mouthpiece, so they don't cause any rotation of the mouthpiece or engage the purchase. The purchase (The shanks above the mouthpiece) only serves one purpose - Keeping the bit in a specific position in the mouth and keeping it still, in that position. Many horses with nervous mouths like these bits because they are still and quiet, much like a full cheek with keepers.

    Quote:
    And than you can also get "D" rings with hooks inside the rings pices for the check and riens (Kinda like a Uxeter Kimberwick) to have yet again slight poll and leverage action...
    Once you introduce an attachment point below the mouthpiece and a purchase above the mouthpiece, it is not longer a snaffle. This bit could be used as a snaffle by not using the hooks - But using the hooks, it becomes a mild gag (Due to the absence of a curb chain, the mouthpiece lifts in the mouths instead of rotating and putting pressure downward on the jaw, poll and chin groove).

    It is a simplistic way to say it - But is is true that a snaffle is a bit without leverage.
         
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        03-15-2011, 06:32 PM
      #452
    Green Broke
    ^ Agreed, WS. Took the words right out of my mouth.
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        03-16-2011, 12:40 PM
      #453
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wild_spot    
    Actually, a baucher has no leverage action because the reins do not attach lower than the mouthpiece, so they don't cause any rotation of the mouthpiece or engage the purchase. The purchase (The shanks above the mouthpiece) only serves one purpose - Keeping the bit in a specific position in the mouth and keeping it still, in that position. Many horses with nervous mouths like these bits because they are still and quiet, much like a full cheek with keepers.



    Once you introduce an attachment point below the mouthpiece and a purchase above the mouthpiece, it is not longer a snaffle. This bit could be used as a snaffle by not using the hooks - But using the hooks, it becomes a mild gag (Due to the absence of a curb chain, the mouthpiece lifts in the mouths instead of rotating and putting pressure downward on the jaw, poll and chin groove).

    It is a simplistic way to say it - But is is true that a snaffle is a bit without leverage.
    okay, than I stand corrected... but answer this for me (cause im a little confused, because I was taught it did have levrage and work the poll) does it work the poll at all, and if so how much? And that it does have any or very slight leverage at all like an ordinary Kimberwick, or was I taught wrong on how the this bit actually works? :S

    And the "d" ring with hooks, if it acts like a mild gag, than why is it still considered a snaffle - cause that's what I was told. Or is this another perfect example of people using bits, and not really knowing how they work or what they actually do in the horses mouth?

    And what would be the ratio for a plan snaffle is it 1:1? Than what about the "D" ring with hooks whats that ratio? And how do you actually determine this ratio?

    I think I have been mis lead whenit comes to the snaffle and curb on how they actually work and what not... please help me!!! Lol :P
    Hoofprints in the Sand, This women does this all the time... and really sucks!!!
         
        03-16-2011, 01:16 PM
      #454
    Green Broke
    Countrygirl, I just have to commend you for not getting angry when you were corrected. I was expecting a snotty response, but you acted very mature. Thank you for that.

    I will let WS answer your questions, as she has much more bit knowledge that I.
    Posted via Mobile Device
         
        03-16-2011, 01:22 PM
      #455
    Foal
    Sunny, I was wrong... so what, Im on here to learn and share the knowledge that I have to offer... and because of that I love it when im called out like this... cause I get to learn something new that can/will help improve my horsemanship and share... and you guys were nice about it as well, so I have no reason to be snotty
         
        03-16-2011, 01:36 PM
      #456
    Green Broke
    And that's great. However, many new members on here certainly don't see it that way. So I really appreciate your maturity.
    Posted via Mobile Device
         
        03-16-2011, 03:58 PM
      #457
    Foal
    OK.... I AM ONE OF THOSE DUMB HORSE PEOPLE.... My 18 yr old daughter has a VERY well trained horse that has done it all... 6 day trail rides, ropping,barrels, poles, and elk hunting. We got him from a family member that was kinda hard on him. She has rode him for about 6 months and spoiled him (rotten). Recently when she rides if he gets into a run he won't stop. He ignores the bit and her telling him.
    I have been told that it could be the bit... and also it could be that his teeth need floated.... someone said it could be too much protien or sugar in his diet... I even have been told that it is because he needs to be ridden harder because isn't used to being walked so much...
    What should I do?
    I have signed her up for more riding lessons... so she can be safer if he keeps acting up. Fixing her is great but, I would like to fix them BOTH.
         
        03-16-2011, 04:05 PM
      #458
    Trained
    It is not the bit. If you rule out any physical problems then it comes down to a training problem


    I have found that horses who like to run off are horses who are use to taking the lead when riding. IE. They are being worked at the walk and then the HORSE not the rider decides to go to a trot and the ride just goes along with it. The next thing you know the horse is going the speed he wants to go and will not change or stop.
         
        03-16-2011, 05:07 PM
      #459
    Trained
    Quote:
    okay, than I stand corrected... but answer this for me (cause im a little confused, because I was taught it did have levrage and work the poll) does it work the poll at all, and if so how much? And that it does have any or very slight leverage at all like an ordinary Kimberwick, or was I taught wrong on how the this bit actually works? :S
    Nope :] It doesn't effect the Poll at all - Because as I said above, in order for the bit to pull down on the poll, it needs to have the reins attaching at a point lower than the mouthpiece itself. To really effect the poll it also needs a curb strap. A kimberwick without slots only has a very mild curb action - in fact hardly any, and it works very similar to a baucher. A kimberwick with slots , where you can fix your reins lower then the mouthpiece, is the much more effective leverage bit - Because you can only start rotating the mouthpiece when that happens.

    Quote:
    And the "d" ring with hooks, if it acts like a mild gag, than why is it still considered a snaffle - cause that's what I was told. Or is this another perfect example of people using bits, and not really knowing how they work or what they actually do in the horses mouth?
    Not so much of people not knowing how they work - More like not knowing/bothering to use the correct terminology for the action of the bit. Most people think a snaffle is anything with a broken mouthpiece, when it fact a snaffle can have any mouthpiece you like. This bit can also be used as a perfectly normal snaffle if you don't use the hooks.

    Quote:
    and what would be the ratio for a plan snaffle is it 1:1? Than what about the "D" ring with hooks whats that ratio? And how do you actually determine this ratio?
    Yep, plain snaffle is 1:1. I have no idea how they work out the other ratios, it's do with the length of the purchase, shanks, and wether there is a curb chain. Too math-sy for me! But the D ring with hooks would be 1:1 when the hooks aren't used, and slightly (Only slightly) more when they are being used.
         
        03-16-2011, 05:26 PM
      #460
    Foal
    Thank -You

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
    it is not the bit. If you rule out any physical problems then it comes down to a training problem


    I have found that horses who like to run off are horses who are use to taking the lead when riding. IE. They are being worked at the walk and then the HORSE not the rider decides to go to a trot and the ride just goes along with it. The next thing you know the horse is going the speed he wants to go and will not change or stop.
    So this is a girl that has spoiled her horse and needs to get him in check? I kinda thought that might be the case. His former owner never asked the horse he told him.... so now he is testing his new friend. More riding lessons will be her spring break plan.
         

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