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Will your horse respond to your bit?

151K views 646 replies 192 participants last post by  DanielDauphin 
#1 · (Edited)
If not, have you considered why?

Recently, I have seen an influx of threads asking advice about "what bit to put my horse in because I don't have control of him/her?" As opposed to retyping my opinion several times, I just decided to have a bit of a 'rant' thread.

First off, if your horse simply refuses to listen to the bit, then the problem isn't with the bit. The problem lies with what training (or lack thereof) and handling the horse is getting. The fact is that 99% of the time that a horse is ignoring the bit, slinging his head, nosing out, or any other action that most people associate as a "bit problem", it isn't the bit at all. It is a terrible thing to see that so many people are not being taught how to properly cue a horse with the bit. They almost always have solid contact and in order to stop or turn, they just pull harder. Those people have hard hands. HARD HANDS MAKE HARD HORSES.

If the horse isn't as responsive as you like in the bit that you have, then work on him in the bit that you have. It is better to go back to a simple snaffle for schooling or corrective work though because it is one of the mildest bits that you can find. If a horse is responsive in a simple snaffle, then you can ride him in anything; however, if you ride him in a twisted wire gag for him to be responsive, then you would have no control in anything less. All the time we see it: a horse gets hard in the snaffle so they move him up to a twisted snaffle, then he gets hard in that so they move him up to a Tom Thumb bit (one of the most worthless bits ever made in my opinion), then he gets hard in that so they move him up to a solid mouth curb with longer shanks, then he gets hard in that so they move him up to a gag bit or a combination bit like those you see with a hard rope noseband and gag bit. Before you know it, the horse is being ridden in a 1/8 inch double twisted wire gag bit. Then 'what a miracle' the horse ends up hard to that too and at this point, they say "Well he is a stupid horse" or "He's stubborn" or "He gets excited". They never for one instant consider that every problem that horse has is rider error and by that point, the poor horse is usually beyond the point of no return.

Not many people are concerned with learning how to be soft with their hands and those that aren't will always blame the horse or the bit for every problem they have. You teach softness by being soft. You maintain softness by being soft. There are certain times, especially when handling a green horse, that being hard for an instant is required but it takes someone who understands horses and knows softness to know how much 'hard' is required and when it will be beneficial to the horse. Many riders should spend their lifetime riding with nothing more than a snaffle because they don't understand when, how, or why to use the bite that a curb bit has. Even fewer people have any business using a twisted wire bit for any reason. Those bits should be reserved for only the most experienced and talented horsemen to use on only the most outlaw horses and only for a few days to re-gain respect for the bit. They should never be used for everyday riding by your typical 'fun' rider, or even a competition rider.

Many horses that end up hard due to improper riding can be re-trained to be soft-ish, however, they will never be as soft as a horse that was taught from the beginning to be responsive to the slightest cues. If you are having trouble at the lope or gallop, then it isn't a sudden problem just because of the change of gait. The issues are there at the walk and trot, they are just more subtle. Any gaps in training at the slower gaits will reveal themselves at speed.

No horse that got the proper training or riding needs to be moved up from a snaffle. We, as riders, choose to move to a different bit because of our preferances or training goals. I choose to ride in a ported curb because I ride one handed on a loose rein and a ported curb is designed for that, a snaffle is not. However, I can still stick any of my horses in a snaffle bit and they respond the same way. If I rode all my horses on light contact and direct reined, would I still use the curb? Absolutely not because it isn't designed for that and it is too much bit for that type of riding. The more advanced bits are designed for finesse, not power.

Anyone who says their horse needs to be in this special bit is just kidding themselves. The horse needs that bit because his training and handling dictates that the rider needs that bit to communicate because their hands only know how to scream. They cannot understand the sublety of a whisper and as a result, their horse has learned to tune out all but the loudest of screams.

Are there horses out there that seem to be immune to the softness of the snaffle from day one? Of course, but those are very rare and that immunity is generally paired with an outlaw nature that is dangerous to handle anyway. If a horse can be trained to accept a rider, then they can be trained to be soft to a snaffle bit.

Some horses misbehave in the bit due to a physical issue, whether it is a tooth problem or a nerve problem in their mouth or some other reason that carrying a bit would be painful. Some riders simply choose to ride bitless. Does that make them less knowledgeable or have a lower worth as a horseman than someone who rides in a bit? No. However, the bitless options out there are no different than the bit options. There are very mild choices like a simple halter or sidepull, there are more advanced options like the bosal, and then there are ridiculous options like those chain nosed mechanical hackamores. The same rules apply to those as they do to bits; stick with the mildest choice unless you need more finesse as the training level progresses.

To make a long story short, a bigger bit is designed to create finesse later in training, they are not meant to simply give a rider more power. A power struggle with a horse will always end up with the horse ruined and the rider frustrated and hateful.

Results come from what you put in their head,
not what you put on it.
 
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#2 ·
Well said! Love every word. I think people to often jump to the next bit up as a shortcut to good training.

I also prefer to ride a curb. Only when the snaffle training is done. I have known too many people who jump them right to a curb looking for better brakes and lose the turn. A horse has to be taught to ride in a curb...the same as he is taught to be ridden in a snaffle. The two are only similar in the way that they are both bits. A snaffle and a leverage bit are WORLDS apart. I wish people would realize that.
 
#3 ·
I didn't read your whole post (sorry) I have a headache (because I got bucked off today) and at the moment I would like to shove barbed wire in my horses mouth... I don't mean that but im cranky and sore ATM..

Anyway I had a question, not sure if anyone will understand this tho..

Q: With a snaffle wouldn't it be more painful that something like a french like bit? Since when you pull back the "nutcracker" thingy wouldn't it hit and put pressure in the roof of the mouth? I just always thought that...

But I do agree fully with what you are saying though :)
 
#493 ·
I didn't read your whole post (sorry) I have a headache (because I got bucked off today) and at the moment I would like to shove barbed wire in my horses mouth... I don't mean that but im cranky and sore ATM..
That just made me remember... I remember reading this article about BARBED WIRE BITS!! It was some article about cruel bits.. Actually I think it was horse forum.. But a couple years ago... It said they are mainly used on mules but anyways... Poor mules!! :cry:
 
#4 ·
Yes, a french link, dogbone, or even a myler type mouth would also be very nice mild options. However, it depends on what your horse prefers and the shape of their mouth. Some horses really hate tongue pressure and respond better in either a standard or a ported snaffle. Others have a low palate and prefer the more streamlined shape of the former types.

The most important thing about a snaffle is it has a 1:1 ratio. That means for every pound you exert on the reins, the horse feels a pound in his mouth. It is impossible to find anything milder than that. Plus the thing that makes it so simple is that it works on just the mouth. It is easier to communicate to a horse that is just learning. Once you add a shank, not only is it working on the mouth, but it is pressuring the curb and the poll too. That makes for more complicated signals and easier confusion. :D
 
#155 ·
I agree with everything you've said. Recently I came under fire at a riding club meeting for riding my 10 year old QH gelding in a plain "O" ring snaffle bit. This gal is a "trainer", so therefor knows everything. She said if my horse wanted to, that he could run off with me. I reminded her that no bit can guarentee a horse to stop- that training does that, and hanging a bigger/heavier bit in a horse's face doesn't do anything but sweep the issue under the rug. That shut her up. :)
 
#5 ·
I agree with everything you've said. Recently I came under fire at a riding club meeting for riding my 10 year old QH gelding in a plain "O" ring snaffle bit. This gal is a "trainer", so therefor knows everything. She said if my horse wanted to, that he could run off with me. I reminded her that no bit can guarentee a horse to stop- that training does that, and hanging a bigger/heavier bit in a horse's face doesn't do anything but sweep the issue under the rug. That shut her up. :)

ETA: For the record, my horse has never run off with me.
 
#6 ·
smrobs,
I ordered a bit from Mylar today after explaining the stage my horse is in of training.
The said about every horse goes into the combination bit which does put some pressure on the nose and I ordered the #4 mouth piece that is contoued and broken with lots of tongue relief. I did order the leather noseband instead of the harsher rawhide and the 3 ring shanks so I can use less leverage and have options for more leverage if needed. The last time I went to see him the trainer had him in a tomthumb and I rode him and had no handle on him we then switched to a mild gag and he was graet to ride. I have soft hands and will actually work on getting him to stop when I sit back after he gets home. I left him for another month and hopefully he has some more softness and more responsive. I had to order a bit before talking with the trainer as I need one by the end of the week so I can ride him as soon as I get him home.
What are your thoughts on this bit. It isn't shipping until Wed so I can change if needed although I have no idae what I would change to
 
#7 ·
^ Ray, a snaffle is ANY bit without any leverage, so a french like, mullen mouth, single joint - They are all snaffles, just different types. Yes, many people are moving away from the single joint snaffle nowadays because of the nutcracker action - But funnily enough, horses will always throw you, and there are some horses out there who really like their single joints and abhor any double jointed snaffle. It's all up to the individual horses preferences - Wether they prefer tongue pressure, bar pressure, or palate pressure - How their mouth is made up, etc.

And amen, Smrobs - You know I agree 100%. I am a staunch defender of the snaffle! though I really am trying to find a curb here that is similar to yours, and having a hard time!
 
#449 ·
^ a snaffle is ANY bit without any leverage,

That is Not 100% true, there are snaffle bits (like the Baucher or "B" Ring Bit) that works on leverage and the polls, but stills has the softness and suppleness of an normal snaffle. You can also get the mouth pieces in in different styles as well...

Baucher Bit


And than you can also get "D" rings with hooks inside the rings pices for the check and riens (Kinda like a Uxeter Kimberwick) to have yet again slight poll and leverage action...
'D' Ring With Hooks

Out of these two bits the Baucher is classified as a TRUE Snaffle bit according to Dressage Canada Rules and Regulations and the "D" ring - showen above is not classified as a true snaffle - according yet agian to Dressage Canada - because this bit tends to have more of a "Softer and not as harsh action" than a Uxeter Kimberwick (if there is suck as thing)...

I would Like to note that these two bits are not your starting or average bits for training or starting a young horse, because of the level of leverage they can produce. But if used right in the properly trained hands and rider can be an excellent transitional tool/bit to used when introducing poll action or slight curb action to your horse.

Now a True Snaffle, is based on the check piece styles:
  • Loose Ring
  • 'D' Ring
  • Egg-Butt
  • Full Check
  • Fulmur
  • Baucher Bit
  • Half Check
  • Offset 'D' - Traditionally more of a western snaffle, but is also used in English
Than Based on the Style of the Mouth Piece:
  • Straight Bar Mouth Piece
    • Mullen
  • Single Jointed
    • One of the more common mouth piece - depeneding on your deiscilpine of choice - has a nut cracker affect in the wrong hands
  • Double Jointed or three piece mouth piece
    • French Link
    • Dr. Bristol
    • Berry
    • Peanut
    • Half Moon
I dont know if a life saver piece would be classified in this area of the snaffle. It is more of a western mouth piece and I have never seen in used in the english world... :S... please correct me if Im wrong, but thisw is what I have been taught and told all through my riding career, and is also the rules and regulations from Dressage Canada.
_______________________________________________________________

Smrobs... I totally agree with you on this!!! Its kinda scary how many trianers, riders, coachs, etc. would rather bit than ride and wonder why the horse is all over the place on the flat and (even more scary) over fences!!! I knew of one coach in the circuit that put a double twisted full check in a short stirrups pony because the child could not control it! Instead of training the young rider properly they "bitted", SCARY!!!

I have another firend who moved up to the 1.20m class last summer. She was riding her mare in a Happy mouth Jointed 'D' ring, the mare went well in it and the rider always was in control... but at one show we went to, she had an coach come up to her and handed her a pelham, and told her "At this level of riding we dont used baby bits, we use real bits..." I than was quick to say... "Than what does that make Ian Miller who rode Big Ben in a Loose ring snaffle during his carrer with him?" She did not repsonsed at all to me, she just walked away with the bit... I should also mention that this coach walked out with her students still riding in a Jill Henselwood Clinic last year. Because Jill told her "Top Student" to ride her horse in a plain snaffle at home for training, not in a crub...

Its almost like when you get to a certain point in your riding and show career, snaffle bits are baby bits and should not be used. Which in turn results in too many ill trained riders/coaches/trainers using the bit in the wrong way in the wrong hands... Thats my opinion and I have seen it so much in the Hunter/Jumper - because that what I started my riding career in, now Im doing classical dressage - pro snaffle :) - world here in Canada... its scary adn dangerous how many riders/trainer/coaches cant use a bit in the proper way... its just wrong, dangerous and scary to see what they are doing to the horses!!!

LEARN TO RIDE PROPERLY AND WHEN SOMETHING GOES WRONG GO BACK TO BASICS BY TAKING AWAY ALLL ARTIFICAL AIDS AND GO BACK TO SQUARE ONE!!!
 
#8 ·
Churumbeque,

I'll jump in as well.

A combination bit can be great for a lot of horses - It can also be very confusing for a lot of horses. It exerts pressure on every part of the face - The mouth, the nose, the chin, the poll. This can be too much for some sensitive horses, or can be ideal for horses who are too sensitive in the mouth.

If you do want to soften him up, I don't think the combination bit is the tool for the job. It is easiest and simplest to soften a horse up in a snaffle - As it sends very clear signals, and any release is communicated quickly and clearly to the mouth. It is harder to get a clear release with so many pressure points on a combination bit - And it is the release that teaches, not the pressure.

The combination bit may well work for him after you have softened him up and have him going well.
 
#11 ·
He was being ridden in a snaffle by someone who didn't understand gaited horses and if he were a qtr hs he would have been fine but now I am trying to get a headset and break at the poll. When he was young at a trainer they had a bit in his mouth and it was 30 below. They said the corners of his mouth froze. This IDIOT is a well known gaited horse trainer also , so I am wondering if frost bite could be contributing to him not being as responsive as he should. He is very soft for flexing and such just not a good head set and as much handle with the snaffle
 
#12 ·
Thank you thank you thank you. I completely agree with using snaffles and even use one on my stallion. Let's face it if a horse doesn't wanna listen no amount of brute strength is gonna change it's mind lol.
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#27 ·
#14 ·
Thanks smrobs and wild_spot! oh soo full of knowledge! :) And no one ever really explained The Snaffle to me :) I'm kinda dumb lol

And I think my mare does pretty good in a snaffle (she has a rubber coated D ring and just a O ring snaffle) And Duckie (the one who bucked me off) has a Dr. Bristle and usually I only need to use kinda light pressure with him.
 
#15 ·
He was being ridden in a snaffle by someone who didn't understand gaited horses and if he were a qtr hs he would have been fine but now I am trying to get a headset and break at the poll. When he was young at a trainer they had a bit in his mouth and it was 30 below. They said the corners of his mouth froze. This IDIOT is a well known gaited horse trainer also , so I am wondering if frost bite could be contributing to him not being as responsive as he should. He is very soft for flexing and such just not a good head set and as much handle with the snaffle
First I want to say - A horse is a horse. There may be differences in carriage between gaited and non gaited, but there is differences in carriage between a QH and Arab, too.

Frostbite on the lips could definitely have created a lack of feeling in the lips. If that is the case, then throw traditional bitting ideas out the window. Give him a god in the combination bit, and see how he likes it. However if you are trying to create a higher, tucked headset like most show gaited horses - It may not be the best bit for it. Poll pressure tends to encourage a lower headset, whereas with a snaffle only contacting the mouth, you can adjust from a super low headset, to a deep one, to a high one.
 
#19 ·
Since he might have the issue with his lips and/or bars due to trauma, he may be one of those horses that goes well with tongue pressure. Maybe some type of bit with a mullen or straight mouth?
Trial and error does get expensive. I will start with the combination since it has several adjustments and I can add and relieve pressure in different areas. He did ride well with a gag and this is a version of that. It's also hard when you are on a time frame and the person training the horse is not available to answer some simple questions to help me determine a direction. I am picking the horse up this week and will know more later.
 
#57 ·
ANY horse can break at the poll. The horse in this picture is still hollow in the back and could benefit from more work on collection. The hind leg is not reaching as far underneath as it could be if his back was more rounded.

To get softness in a horse you can't always use softness. To develop responsiveness you have to have to give a full release at the right time regardless of the amount of pressure applied. "Soft" hands not coupled with a complete and well timed release will result in a horse that gets tired of being nagged and ignores the rider just as much as if the rider used too much force.
 
#22 ·
Thank you Smrobs...very useful post :D

It's funny, because I tried a mild curb on my mare this morning, and she didn't seem to care for it at all...she was tense, and 'hyped' up. I don't know if it has anything to do with how she was ridden prior to me acquiring her, but definitely confirmed to me that she is not ready for one yet, either. She responds very well in a French Link Full cheek, and I've been riding her lately in a D-Ring, and she likes that too. Now if this was 10 years ago, I probably would have wigged out, and thought OMG she needs a harsher bit...now on the contrary, I feel a horse needs to go back down to a snaffle when they aren't responsive to a curb. Funny how time, and education teach you much needed stuff.
 
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#23 ·
Yep, I went through that with one of my green horses just this summer. She had been ridden before (and had some horrible habits because of it) so I progressed her a bit quickly up into the curb. I mean, after all, she did have 30 days "professional" training on her already *eyeroll*. I rode her in that for about 5 minutes before I decided that she wasn't anywhere near ready for that so back down to the snaffle she went. After a few more rides in the snaffle, I felt she was ready and transitioned her up again and it went off without a hitch. Nice and soft, responsive to the flick of a rein, and relaxed.
 
#25 ·
Yep, I went through that with one of my green horses just this summer. She had been ridden before (and had some horrible habits because of it) so I progressed her a bit quickly up into the curb. I mean, after all, she did have 30 days "professional" training on her already *eyeroll*. I rode her in that for about 5 minutes before I decided that she wasn't anywhere near ready for that so back down to the snaffle she went. After a few more rides in the snaffle, I felt she was ready and transitioned her up again and it went off without a hitch. Nice and soft, responsive to the flick of a rein, and relaxed.
Glad I'm not the only one who's had that problem! She is SOOOO calm and relaxed with the snaffles, and although she started out calm with the curb, she quickly seemed to get confused, which upset her more...so back to the snaffle, and she was fine. I don't show in 'upper level' shows, so I really don't care if she ever transitions back to a curb; of course I will keep trying down the road, but I don't necessarily need it for gymkhana, or trail riding, ya know? She goes bitless, as well.
 
#24 ·
Churum, he looks good there. He is relaxed but attentive and seems to be moving out nicely. I wasn't suggesting that you start buying all different kinds of bits to see which one works. By all means, give him a shot with the one you were planning on first and see how it goes. I hope it works well for both of you. I was just kinda brainstorming on what else might be an option if nothing else works.
 
#26 ·
Churum, he looks good there. He is relaxed but attentive and seems to be moving out nicely. I wasn't suggesting that you start buying all different kinds of bits to see which one works. By all means, give him a shot with the one you were planning on first and see how it goes. I hope it works well for both of you. I was just kinda brainstorming on what else might be an option if nothing else works.
Unfortunatley to try em ya gotta buy em. The trainer FINALLY called me back just now and said he is still in the gag bit and will have an answer for me this week when I come to get him. I am not one to wait untill the last minute so I am a little concerned.
 
#29 ·
Thanks very much, I still have been searching for a shank bit. Both of my horses are ridden in full cheek snaffles. I wouldn't change them except they need a shank bit to be ridden in 4H shows.
I dont want to get off the subject of the thread but I am seriously thinking about buying this.
I have a TT, I do not want to use it!
 
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