Will your horse respond to your bit? - Page 63 - The Horse Forum
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post #621 of 647 Old 06-24-2014, 01:01 PM
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Thank you both so much, you answered my questions DD
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post #622 of 647 Old 07-02-2014, 12:57 AM
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ive been looking up more info about bits because i was absolutely clueless!!!! i have actually learned more than i thought i would.
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post #623 of 647 Old 07-04-2014, 10:18 PM
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At a feed store where I worked has a huge cthedral bit, it was part of a buy out of another small tack store that went under. One day I was puting prices on new shipment when I heard a guy say, now this will s top my horse, I just casually got up and went around the corner to see what he was talking about and he had the cathedral curb in his hand. He was taking about how this woud stop his horse and talked like an ignorant bully to his buddy about using the bit on one of his two year olds with a stopping problem. I bit my tongue and casualy went about my bussiness. I thought the guy had bought the bit but to my releife he had not. I confiscated the bit. I bought the bit to keep as a demonstration of what not to use when training. I also dont beleive such a bit has a place in the mouth of any horse esp a youngster. So many ppl are blind ignorant and stubborn and dont want to learn a better way because they are to much in the mind set of I want it now and I dont want to have to work for it. Disaster in the making. I try to hope that I thwarted the misery the man's youngster may have gone through over the ignorance of his master.

"The question is not, can they reason? nor, can they talk? but, can they suffer?" Jeremy Bentham
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post #624 of 647 Old 07-05-2014, 03:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaneyZanne123 View Post
At a feed store where I worked has a huge cthedral bit, it was part of a buy out of another small tack store that went under. One day I was puting prices on new shipment when I heard a guy say, now this will s top my horse, I just casually got up and went around the corner to see what he was talking about and he had the cathedral curb in his hand. He was taking about how this woud stop his horse and talked like an ignorant bully to his buddy about using the bit on one of his two year olds with a stopping problem. I bit my tongue and casualy went about my bussiness. I thought the guy had bought the bit but to my releife he had not. I confiscated the bit. I bought the bit to keep as a demonstration of what not to use when training. I also dont beleive such a bit has a place in the mouth of any horse esp a youngster. So many ppl are blind ignorant and stubborn and dont want to learn a better way because they are to much in the mind set of I want it now and I dont want to have to work for it. Disaster in the making. I try to hope that I thwarted the misery the man's youngster may have gone through over the ignorance of his master.
It's almost sad when you see ignorant trainers like that. Using a harsh bit from the get-go will never get you the soft result that you want.
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post #625 of 647 Old 07-05-2014, 10:07 AM Thread Starter
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Zaney, no, that bit isn't appropriate for training, especially in the hands of the man you described, but they do have their place. Many horses are ridden in those bits, usually for disciplines like WP where invisible rein cues are desired and the horses are ridden on a lot of drape. Because of the "power" of the bit, the horse is able to feel the very slight cues that would go unnoticed in a milder bit.

Most bits, barring a few extreme examples like the screw bit


Or exceptionally small diameter twisted bits, especially when combined with weighted rings or any sort of shanks.



Most other bits do have their place either in training or on finished horses and are only as harsh as the hands on the reins.

The problem isn't the design of the bits, most of the time. The problem is the lack of knowledge/ability of the person using them.

Always remember that feeling of looking at a big, open country over the ears of a good horse, seeing a new trail unwind ahead of you, and that ever-spectacular view from the top of the ridge!!! Follow my training blog: http://robertsontraining.blogspot.com/
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post #626 of 647 Old 07-06-2014, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smrobs View Post
Zaney, no, that bit isn't appropriate for training, especially in the hands of the man you described, but they do have their place. Many horses are ridden in those bits, usually for disciplines like WP where invisible rein cues are desired and the horses are ridden on a lot of drape. Because of the "power" of the bit, the horse is able to feel the very slight cues that would go unnoticed in a milder bit.

Most bits, barring a few extreme examples like the screw bit


Or exceptionally small diameter twisted bits, especially when combined with weighted rings or any sort of shanks.



Most other bits do have their place either in training or on finished horses and are only as harsh as the hands on the reins.

The problem isn't the design of the bits, most of the time. The problem is the lack of knowledge/ability of the person using them.
I agree.

I understand how the bit works and its mechanics and etc. (showed and trained WP for a few years) However: I still dont see the need for it if a horse is going so well and light in something less invasive (I mean the horse is an extremely sensitive animal and can feel the slightest of touch esp in his mouth.) He had to have been trained to go so well and light before hand, why put in something like that stated above.? If the horse needs to be light in such a bit then why cant the horse be taught to be that light in something less invasive??

I feel the same way about spades, cork screw bits, prick bits, chain saw bits, bicycle chain bits, wire wrapped bits and high leverage shanked bits (shanks longer than 8 inches). I personaly dont use and never had to use anything longer than 8 inches worth of shank. I had an older (late 20s early 30s) mare who was retrained in a snaffle by using the reverse method of dropping back the severity of the bits used. BUT she performed (in a show setting) well/better in a long shanked bit (8 inches), probably due to past usage of such and being comfortable in it (it was a snaffle mouth). I dont uderstand why she liked it (didnt like the TT: very few actualy do and its not a bit I choose lightly, and she didnt like a solid mouth, didnt like a double broken mouth, didnt need rollers, and didnt like the shorter shanked ones as well either, she tollerated them but would often shake her head. She didnt shake her head with the full cheek snaffle and did pretty well in it. With the longer shanked bit she didnt fuss at all and worked well in it also....go figure. I think it had more to do with the weight of the bit than the shank length.) She was old so I thought....why fuss with her and used the longer shanked bit..

Just like when I am told by the rule makers in the TWH world and shows that I have to show in a curb type bit when my horse may go and gait just well in a regular snaffle. Why to I have to put in a curb to get the same response I already get from a less invasive bit like a snaffle type.?? (thats when I pull out the 2 inch shank bit and go from there.) I dont like Aluminum shanked bits either, simply because of the excessive rocking factor of the reins (drooping reins) esp when one uses heavy type reins.

I dont like twisted wire anything bits (now I will say this.....I have time to time used a slow twisted snaffle in a horse with a very hard mouth that needed to be awakened a little but then reversed back to something less invasive.) They can be useful in trouble shooting and in retraining a harden horse but then I always return to the non twisted variety. Experienced ppl should only be the ones to use them. I feel that Clinton Anderson uses the twisted wire snaffles to excessivly when one can do the same thing and get the same responses with a non twisted variety. John Lyons does.

But your right on one hand though........Idiots with power tools (or any tool for that matter) = disaster.

I collect old bits and have some of the above metion bits (the rough ones I dont like) but for display only. Some make me cringe just looking at them (esp the ones that are hand made.)

"The question is not, can they reason? nor, can they talk? but, can they suffer?" Jeremy Bentham
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post #627 of 647 Old 07-11-2014, 11:45 PM
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I have a 4 year old paint mare..she can be lead around with halter n lead rope with kids on he saddle she has great ground manners..but when i put a bit in her mouth she throws her head..a lot!!!!!. i can get some response with it but after 15 minutes of her having it on she rares..so i bought a noe band and a tie down strap..she won't respond to my cues to go forward.where should i start again???need some adviceplease
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post #628 of 647 Old 07-12-2014, 11:32 AM Thread Starter
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Susan, my first stop would be with the dentist for your horse. She may have a tooth or mouth problem that is making a bit painful for her. After that, I strongly suggest you seek the help of a competent trainer. Because there are so many different things that could be causing this behavior, I'm hesitant to offer any "fix-its" online because trying to correct any training problem, especially one that results in rearing, can be very dangerous and I would hate for you to get hurt.

One thing though, please don't use the tie-down on her in hopes of correcting the issue. If she starts to rear but has her head tied down like that, she can easily become overwhelmed and have a really big freak-out...which can lead to her flipping over and seriously injuring whoever is riding/handling her, or it can seriously injure herself.

Always remember that feeling of looking at a big, open country over the ears of a good horse, seeing a new trail unwind ahead of you, and that ever-spectacular view from the top of the ridge!!! Follow my training blog: http://robertsontraining.blogspot.com/
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post #629 of 647 Old 07-22-2014, 11:45 PM
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great advice...
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post #630 of 647 Old 07-28-2014, 12:46 AM
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The ladies i bought her from had her teeth done and full vet check.before i picked her up she hadn't been rode i a year or so..but with everyday working with her she has came along way..she responds more to the bit she has a soft mouth..she reponds better to leg ques..i figured out she does NOT llike the arenas with a
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