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Woa Holy Heck

2K views 25 replies 13 participants last post by  Cherie 
#1 ·
Got challenged by a horse for the first time tonight. Happened so fast barely had time to think. Luckily I was holding my whip which I normally only carry as an accessory for riding as in the past have only handled and ridden lovely geldings.

Was a new Mare that I got given that has been out of work for a year. This week I have done a little ground work with her, but only leading, took her for a walk along the road and other minor stuff. Went to lunge her tonight and she was acting a bit silly while being lunged, wouldn't just walk kept trotting and cantering erratically. I hadn't actually even asked her to move yet. I snapped the rope abit and asked her to walk and she came in teeth bared. Gesh never hit a horse before like that and really meant it.

I got her to walk and trot nicely with woas and inviting her in and back out then went to switch her to the other way and she swung her bum in and went to kick me. Got after her with the whip and smacked her bum hard. Then worked with her till she was responding nicely.

Was this the right thing to do? Honestly never been around an aggressive horse before, let alone had one actually go for me.
 
#2 ·
Yes, that smack from the whip was barely an "ouch" to her but you commanded her respect. Imagine how another dominant horse would react to her coming at them with her teeth bared? She would have a face full of hoof! She tested you and you showed her who is in charge. Good job.
 
#4 ·
I feel a bit annoyed that there was no mention of her possibly displaying that kind of aggression when she was given to me. She is 10 so surely she would have shown aggression before?

I do have quite a relaxed attitude with my horses, so possibly I have not picked up little things that she has done to test me and she thought she could challenge me. I hope I did not miss things. She was a little pushy when I first started doing little things with her. But she never showed aggression when I had corrected her. If anything she was very quick to respond to the corrections positively.

I did not work her really hard afterwards though. Focused more on getting her to calm down and just a nice walk/trot and in and back out. I think I have read that others work horses really hard if they are disrespectful?
 
#5 · (Edited)
It sounds like you handled that situation appropriately! I bet there are little things she's been doing to "test" you that you've been missing, and today she decided to really go for it. It sounds like your gut reaction was just perfect though! Good job, it's easy to "freeze" in those situations and lose that moment of correction.

I did not work her really hard afterwards though. Focused more on getting her to calm down and just a nice walk/trot and in and back out. I think I have read that others work horses really hard if they are disrespectful?
For me, in my limited experience, I go off the kind of "feeling" the horse is giving off when I decide what kind of correction is appropriate.
For instance, some horses, when they test, give off a "come over here and MAKE ME" vibe - those horses get worked HARD until they soften up. Other horses give off more of a "NannnerNannerfoofoo, I'm faster than you so I'm going to mess with you because you are powerless!!!" vibe when they test - I tend to make those horses slowwww way down and work on calm sorts of behaviors.

I find that the first horses, the ones that need to be worked harder as "punishment", are usually the ones that favor "whoa" rather than go. The second type of horse is usually a horse with a hotter temperament. A lot of times [as someone who loves hotter horses] I've found that making a hot/go-y horse work harder as "punishment" ends up backfiring since the horse LOVES going = "oh yay! I was rude and now I get to run! Fabulous!"
However, there are no absolutes.

In any case, you sound like you have pretty sound instincts so I would go with your gut on this one.
If you got a "she needs to calm down" vibe and she was respectful by the time you two were done with your session, I would call that a success!

Trust your instincts! Sounds like you've got a line on this mare for sure. She sounds sassy and wonderful. :)
I bet that you'll have an extremely loyal partner once you've earned her trust and respect.
 
#7 ·
Will be again tomorrow. I want to be out trekking! Can't wait to be able to ride her down to the river :)

I actually expect her to try again. Even though I got her working nicely I had the feeling she was still looking at me sideways for a sign of weakness.
 
#8 ·
hay, sounds like you nailed it, good job. Don't be too upset with the previous owners not telling you anything, they may not have ever had to deal with it, she might never have pushed them like that or they knew how to deal with it so it may rarely have come up. The horse might have thought "ha ha, newbie, Ill show you". Or they might not had much other experience and thought all horses were like that and therefore there wasn't a need to tell you.
Also, being relaxed around horses is the way to be, in my opinion anyway. You don't say how much experience you have, but firstly, it sounds like you were right on the money, and secondly, the more you do it the easier it gets, you'll get to a point where as soon as you loot at your horse as you go out to get it you'll be able to tell exactly what kind of a mood its in, and be able to read what kind of mischief its libel to try on you.
Anyway, nice work, sounds as though you handled it well.
 
#9 ·
oh yeah, and I think you were probably right to lay off her a bit once you won. I used to be a "work their backside off when they pull those shenanigans" kind of a guy, but when I learned to chill out and give them some space after I pulled them into line I got much better results. Probably depends on the horse a bit, but in general I prefer to give them time to have a think about what just happened.
 
#13 ·
You did the right thing. I would probably have done more than you did in that I would have spent the rest of the session 'pushing' her around. Not bullying her and not pecking on her with the whip, but making sure she moved backward and sideways away from me every time i told her to.

You walking toward a horse with authority and 'telling' (not 'asking') that horse to back up briskly and willingly is the equivalent of a dog rolling over on its back. The horse is very much saying "I give up! My bad!" Its is an act of submission while still paying 100% attention to a handler. It is much more effective in 'mind control' than making a horse move forward away from you.

Your original smack down for diving at you was NOT sufficient or she would not have kicked out at you. It stopped her (thankfully) but it did not completely convince her that you are in charge.

What we teach people to do, especially if they are not very experienced in 'reading' horse behavior, is to back a horse up several steps every time they put a halter on a horse. It should ONLY stop backing up when the handler stops asking it to back up. If a horse stops and plants its feet, refusing to continue backing, it is directly challenging your authority and it needs to be 'fixed' before you do anything else.

Then, turn the horse toward the right every time you turn it. This seems like a really little thing, but it is HUGE to a horse. Again, it is yielding ground and moving away from the handler. You can get a sense of just how your horse thinks of you in your relationship every time you ask it to back up and every time you ask it to move its shoulders to the right. This also leads to more willing actions when riding.

I do very little 'disengaging' of the hind quarters. I do very few turns on the forehand in hand or under saddle. I do a lot more asking for shoulder movement. It is much more difficult and much more relevant to under saddle training. It requires far more obedience and compliance from a horse. It does a great deal more to teach the correct 'pressure and release' responses so necessary for all useful training.
 
#15 ·
She has been fine with minor ground work. Backs up well and moves her hindquarters. Walks trots and woas immediately while being walked.

I guess being on the lunge she sees as abit more domineering so she tried to take control. She is definitely a dominant mare with my boys. She only asks once for them to move and if they don't she will bite or kick them.

Probably because I am so relaxed and only assertive with my horses if I have to be she thought she could get away with it.

But my boys are all laid back and gentle. Bad manners to them is trying to not do something. Then a tap on the shoulder or bum and they do it.
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#18 ·
Re- aggression. I would not consider this "aggression" just sounds like a new horse testing her place. Unless it's a reoccurring issue after you continuously correct her (appropriately) I would not term it that way nor worry about it (though do be careful as she will probably continue to do this until she knows her place), it's also not something that was necessarily an issue for the previous owners. She could of been a sweet well behaved mare that got left alone and is now in a new situation being put back into work and testing that. Seems relatively normal. Horses don't play nice, she is doing what comes naturally which to someone our size and with our lifestyle is rather violent. There are very few actually aggressive horses.
 
#21 ·
Thanks everyone for the input and advice. I'm going to be more assertive with her and also be sure that I'm not giving her the impression that she can dominate me or have a go at it anyway :)

Iv taken her away from my geldings and put her in a paddock with my old retired boy. I like to muck around with my boys there without halters and leads, so the way I am with them isn't giving her ideas.
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#26 ·
I am not familiar with camels, but have heard that they have a good deal more reasoning thinking than horses. Horses are very far down that scale.

Mules can and do hold grudges and show a lot more reasoning ability than horses. Bison and cattle both show more intelligence in the way of reasoning than horses do. If you handle them on a daily basis, bison in particular, are very intelligent and show a lot of reasoning ability.

Intelligence and reasoning are not connected to 'trainability' at all in horses. They do little if any 'projecting' actions into future consequences. This is why they can 'self destruct' and injure themselves so severely. This is also why mules are often much 'safer' mounts in really dangerous terrain.

From what I have heard from people that have handled camels a lot, they do have a lot more 'thinking and reasoning' ability than horses do.
 
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