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    10-23-2009, 09:14 PM
A gag bit is not meant to be used on a horse that is still learning, that much I will say. I agree that you need to go back to basics to a degree. Before your horse can learn neck reining and being soft in a curb, he needs to understand a snaffle.

Its like me asking you to do calculus when you're still learning how to multiply and divide. You need to set your horse up to succeed and the best way to do that is to give him all the tools to succeed and make sure he is solid in the basics before you ask him to move onto something more complex.
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    10-23-2009, 09:17 PM
A horse will neck rein better with a curb then a snaffle, same as a horse can be taught to stop harder/quicker with a curb.
I carry a 6 inch scare on my leg from a runaway when I was a little kid.

A few days after I was hurt my father took the horse and taught her some hard hard stops in just 2 stops. The 3rd time my father just sat back and with a single word had the horse slidding to a stop. That horse never ran again and for the rest of our time with her she had a fantastic stop.
I have worked a few runaways the same way as my father did it to my mare.
    10-23-2009, 09:20 PM
I don't think this horse is a runaway. I think it's a horse that needs to learn to stop and either missed a step along the way, or needs a tune up. In my opinion, you don't put a curb in a horses mouth that isn't solid in a snaffle. It's not fair to the horse and you're just leaving holes in your training.
    10-23-2009, 09:42 PM
I agree with SpasticDove on this one...I'm sorry, but I don't think arm wrestling your horse's mouth with a curb is the best way to "train" a horse. I also don't think it makes a big difference what bit you're neckreining it - not to a horse that's trained to neckrein.
    10-23-2009, 09:47 PM
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I agree with SD.

And, I taught my mare to neck rein in a snaffle. She seems to understand the cues better in a bitless bridle but she understood the concept already from the snaffle.
I think you need to go back to basics with him and retrain him to stop and do all the other stuff you're having difficulty with, in a snaffle. It might be helpful to teach him some voice commands on the ground then transfer them to the saddle.
For instance, when I got my mare she had a great stop but she couldn't stand still for anything. I trained her on the ground to stop and not move when I say "ho" until I say "ok". I would say "ho", stop my own movement and have her back up 3-4 steps then stand for a moment (eventually I started taking a step away from her and saying "ahhh" when she moved etc). She picked it up pretty quickly and now it's SO nice because I can tell her "ho" and trust that she'll stay in place until I tell her she can move.
Now I use it in the saddle and she's great about stopping and standing still whenever and wherever I need her to. And even when she decides to tune me out and be a jerk I can say "ho" to her and she'll stop dead.
The only thing I have to be careful about is to not say it without making her stop if she doesn't and I have to be careful to remember to say "ok" because I don't want her to learn that she can just stop then walk off when I say "ho".

A stronger bit isn't going to solve anything, it might even make it worse. I wish you luck! =)
    10-23-2009, 10:16 PM
Problem is, a curb in the wrong hands can make no whoa into a rear real quick.
    10-23-2009, 11:10 PM
My granddaughter's horse, Lightning neckreins way better in a curb bit than he does in a snaffle. I have ridden him in both and he is tuned to the curb bit differently than a snaffle. On the other hand he minds the snaffle wonderfully when you direct rein him.
    10-23-2009, 11:27 PM
Its a gag, gags are head raising and harsh, get a simple short shanked curb
    10-23-2009, 11:34 PM
Originally Posted by charliBum    
... get a simple short shanked curb
once you have a solid snaffle horse.
    10-24-2009, 05:17 AM
What I was meaning is if she MUST get a curb bit

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