WooHoo! Tell it Mr. Trocha. - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 85 Old 07-29-2011, 10:58 AM
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Judging by the other emails in his newsletter, I would think this one is real.
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post #12 of 85 Old 07-29-2011, 11:12 AM
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Love it! Totally Love it!

It is scary to me that someone who supports NH would be willing to say that he has said anything incorrect. I would think if you are a follower of any of the NH gurus you would want people like Sue to stop proclaiming their way of ruining perfectly good horses is NH.

Originally Posted by maura View Post
In the hunter world, we would talk about those amateur in terms of 4 Fs - forty, fat, fearful and female.
Hey, I resemble that remark.
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post #13 of 85 Old 07-29-2011, 11:45 AM
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Love the article!!

Who cares if the e-mail is based on a ficticious problem, or not. We ALL know owner/horse situations just like her....don't we?? The people who carry NH principles to such an axtreme that they have lost track of true equine behavior in the desire to anthropomorphize a horse's needs/behavior? I sure have. And, yes, they can and DO produce dangerous horses.

I am not bashing NH training ( I, too, hate this seperating label), I use many of their techniques. I just think some carry it to extreme.
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post #14 of 85 Old 07-29-2011, 11:57 AM
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"****ed if I wasn't right!" Even my non-horsey boyfriend thought that was a good one.

I like this because he isn't just being snarky, he genuinely cares and wants the woman to realize how dangerous this is. He offered wonderfully insightful advice. Great read.. thanks for posting.

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post #15 of 85 Old 07-29-2011, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Doe View Post
Afraid I'm a cynic and suspect that email was written by him for the purpose and not received as he said. (Not so) hidden agenda anyone?

It's shame that it's so much about money and egos and the values are being missed. He's bashing NH to push his own 'club', books etc, and yet he uses the same methods with his horses. Once again the them and us, whack 'em or fairy kisses mentality. I've got no issue with him bashing NH or anything else, but to bash something at least focus on what the problem is rather than just perpetuating confusion and ignorance.

Middle ground anyone?
Sorry, but the "methods" she appeared to use were NOT Natural Horsemanship. She had a very skewed view of the NH methods and applied them completely incorrectly.

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post #16 of 85 Old 07-29-2011, 12:19 PM
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FANTASTIC! It really doens't matter if it was a marketing trick to express his views and get people interested in his training DVDs. SOMEONE needs to talk some sense into those owners who have taken NH and distorted it into some way to have a super special mystical love relationship with your horse. I too have seen way too many (usually middle age) women think they're going to fulfill their childhood dream of owning a horse and having a fantasty type of bond with it. These are the women who end up seriously hurt, with husbands blaming the good for nothing screwed up horse, and shipping them off when they can't be fixed.

A little bit of honesty is a good thing, even if that cuts into the bottom line of those in the industry that help to perpetuate the "fantasy" of owning a horse.

I've spent most of my life riding horses. The rest I've just wasted.
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post #17 of 85 Old 07-29-2011, 12:21 PM
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I think the point to remember is Mr. Trocha is not necessarily bashing NH, he's bashing the *******ized form of NH that people cling to - the belief that it's all about love and rainbows and never ever hitting your horse. Anyone who's ACTUALLY watched a "NH trainer" will realize that's not true whatsoever - just because they're not whipping them to death in the corner of a stall doesn't mean they never dish out physical discipline. Popping the horse with the metal clip under the jaw, slapping them in the side of the head when they refuse to move out of your space - how is it any different from giving them a wack in the hindquarter with a leadrope?

Again though, the NH thing is just irritating. Every single good trainer worth his salt uses a certain amount of "NH type" methods - and most don't feel it necessary to brag about how superior they are to others or point out what sort of "special" training they're using. Training is training, end of story. You don't call parenting by 6 different names do you? The "Never Say No" mom, the "Spank You Silly" mom, the "Ignore It Til It Stops" mom? I didn't think so.

I have no doubts whatsoever that the e-mail is true - based solely on just how many threads I've seen on this forum alone written EXACTLY the same. "Oh my horse tried to bite me, is she mad at me?" "No, she's dominating you, don't let her be aggressive." "Oh she's not aggressive, she's just upset, she'd NEVER HURT ME!"

Famous last words? And we hear them constantly, so I don't know how anyone could doubt that someone wrote this e-mail. Even if he DID invent it, he's invented it BASED on the thousands of e-mails he's gotten during his career. Even if "Sue" doesn't exist, every single scenario he's written about HAS happened, and he HAS been asked about, you can guarantee yourself of that!

I hope God tells her to smash her computer with a sledgehammer.

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post #18 of 85 Old 07-29-2011, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Allison Finch View Post
Who cares if the e-mail is based on a ficticious problem, or not.
I believe all his "emails" are for real. He IS straight and rough, but then I don't see the point of sugar-coating when it comes to the safety and training.

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass: it's about learning to dance in the rain..."

"When we are no longer able to change a situation - we are challenged to change ourselves."

"How people treat you is their karma; how you react is yours."
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post #19 of 85 Old 07-29-2011, 12:26 PM
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As I have said before (and will say it again) back in the days of the Terradactyle we did not have "Nantural Horsementship." We just trained horses and tried to read the horse to get the best results and no one got killed and we ended up with training progress and good horses.

I enjoyed reading this and I too agree that Mr. Trocha has it right.

That being said, I honestly have NEVER thought a horse "loved" me. Do people really think that? I have had horses that seem to enjoy having me around (I always thought they found amusement in me working and doing things like removing manure and putting down bedding).

As to bonds.. I really don't like that word. It is OK with dogs.. but horses.. not so much. I find a horse will become accustomed to you and become expectant of certain things but bond? Horses DO bond to each other but not so much to people. IME you bring a treat every time you see a horse, that horse will be looking for you but the reason has nothing to do with 'love' and everything to do with the treat!

IOW's there really is no Flicka, Fury or Black Stallion.....
..and if Mr. Ed could REALLY talk he would likely say things most folks would not want to hear!!!

There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man. ~Winston Churchill
(or woman!!!! ) Dinosaur Horse Trainer
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post #20 of 85 Old 07-29-2011, 12:30 PM
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Elana, don't ruin my personal fantasty! I still want to believe Zee loves me and we have a "bond", but that doesn't stop me from giving him a good crack whenever he thinks it a good time to challenge with!

I've spent most of my life riding horses. The rest I've just wasted.
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