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post #21 of 43 Old 10-12-2010, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacabreMikolaj View Post

However, nothing about it disgusts me. We've all been young, we've all made training errors, and she's not hauling on his mouth, she simply isn't being as open as she needs to be to encourage forward movement.

And I find this..... interesting. I find this video to be on the same level as the one with the little pony (breaking the pony).
A quote from you on that thread :
Sometimes I feel we need to ignore "intentions" and focus on the level of suffering the animal is enduring - I don't think it makes it any more right to cripple and torture an animal just because you "didn't know any better". It's still abuse and the horse certainly doesn't differentiate between intention and ignorance.

How is this any different?? She has cranked the pony's head down in draw reins and is giving conflicting signals. The only place she is allowing the pony to go is UP.
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post #22 of 43 Old 10-12-2010, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ImagineThat View Post
The only place she is allowing the pony to go is UP.

EXACTLY, and I'm pretty sure MM covered this. She needs to be directing the pony in another direction, ANY direction but up!

MM also said that it's not abuse, she'd just change the way it's dealt with. So, it's not as if the pony is being abused like in the other video. To me, you can't compare them. Those rednecks in the other video probably know better, but are idiots... PURPOSELY making the horse aggitated for the sake of video. This girl however, is trying to deal with the problem the best way she knows how, and even if it's not YOUR way, it should not be bashed.

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post #23 of 43 Old 10-12-2010, 03:45 PM
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I wasn't going to post in this thread as I'm not sure it is appropriate to post a randome youtube video for critique without it being a member. Because of that, this thread may be removed at a later date.

I just wanted to post that as the owner of a chronic rearer, this girl is not doing a terrible job. She's making alot of errors, but as we all know, sticking to the saddle on a small pony is never easy. The barrel is so tiny that there just isn't much to hang on to. This pony is also popping a few bucks in between rears, which is probably why she's got such a hold on it's face. The draw reins appear to be ineffective on this pony.

The kicking is not at all abusive, she's got the right idea, forward motion keeps those front feet on the ground, however the tight hold on his head isn't helping her situation. This pony is actually very dangerous and is going to severely injure someone if he's not handled correctly. I don't believe she's cuing that pony to rear.

She's trying to pop him with the bat to move him forward, but she's still holding the reins while doing so. It's not helping the situation either.

There are tons of things a person can do with a rearer, none of which seem gentle.

I'm not in anyway advocating this video, nor the methods used it in. I'm just stating that if you've never dealt with an honost rearer, then you don't have a full understanding of the situation. The girl had the right idea but not the right moves or correct timing.

Please note that as I mentioned earlier, this thread may be removed at a later time.

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post #24 of 43 Old 10-12-2010, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliz View Post
EXACTLY, and I'm pretty sure MM covered this. She needs to be directing the pony in another direction, ANY direction but up!

MM also said that it's not abuse, she'd just change the way it's dealt with. So, it's not as if the pony is being abused like in the other video. To me, you can't compare them. Those rednecks in the other video probably know better, but are idiots... PURPOSELY making the horse aggitated for the sake of video. This girl however, is trying to deal with the problem the best way she knows how, and even if it's not YOUR way, it should not be bashed.
What is your definition of abuse?

I'm not saying the 2 videos are the same thing, but they are on the same level to me. This girl has cranked the pony's head down with draw reins and is kicking and pulling. How is that ok?? You could say the same about this video, that she is purposely agitating the pony to get him to act out. How do you really know that about either video?
I was pointing out that MM said to throw out "intentions" and look at the "suffering" of the animal. Just think it's odd that MM says that about the pony breaking video, yet doesn't see it in this one. This girl is no better, "good intentions" or not.
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post #25 of 43 Old 10-12-2010, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by farmpony84 View Post
I wasn't going to post in this thread as I'm not sure it is appropriate to post a randome youtube video for critique without it being a member. Because of that, this thread may be removed at a later date.

I just wanted to post that as the owner of a chronic rearer, this girl is not doing a terrible job. She's making alot of errors, but as we all know, sticking to the saddle on a small pony is never easy. The barrel is so tiny that there just isn't much to hang on to. This pony is also popping a few bucks in between rears, which is probably why she's got such a hold on it's face. The draw reins appear to be ineffective on this pony.

The kicking is not at all abusive, she's got the right idea, forward motion keeps those front feet on the ground, however the tight hold on his head isn't helping her situation. This pony is actually very dangerous and is going to severely injure someone if he's not handled correctly. I don't believe she's cuing that pony to rear.

She's trying to pop him with the bat to move him forward, but she's still holding the reins while doing so. It's not helping the situation either.

There are tons of things a person can do with a rearer, none of which seem gentle.

I'm not in anyway advocating this video, nor the methods used it in. I'm just stating that if you've never dealt with an honost rearer, then you don't have a full understanding of the situation. The girl had the right idea but not the right moves or correct timing.

Please note that as I mentioned earlier, this thread may be removed at a later time.

I have dealt with plenty of rearing horses, including owning a TB whose answer to everything was rearing. In fact, its the one in my avatar.

Yes, forward motion is key in getting over rearing. And that's why I don't understand why this girl has put draw reins on and is holding his face while asking him to go forward. If this video is even the slightest hint of how the pony gets ridden, I can understand why he rears.
I would go back to ground work, get respect and control of his feet.... and teach a go forward cue. And any time that cue is given, said pony shouldn't even think about anything but MOVE.
No draw reins for sure. I wouldn't care what speed the pony decided to go at as long as it went forward when I said so. Once you get forward motion down, then you can worry about what speed.
I don't know that I would want to call this video "abuse", but I don't see anything productive.
I have no problems with a crop either, but I would be inclined to use it right behind my leg instead of the shoulder.... plus this girl is yanking the pony in the mouth when she does use the crop.
I think the way I just described (though not in complete detail) is fairly gentle.... and effective.

Last edited by ImagineThat; 10-12-2010 at 04:02 PM. Reason: forgot a word in one sentence..
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post #26 of 43 Old 10-12-2010, 04:08 PM
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I agree she's doing a ton of things wrong. I'm just saying, she has the right idea, her execution is incorrect though. As for the draw reins, I'm not sure why she's using those. I will admit I did use a tie down with mine. It was helpful in keeping the height of the rear down, yet it was loose enough that it did not hinder his forward movement. (It was only used during flatwork)

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post #27 of 43 Old 10-12-2010, 05:35 PM
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Sheesh, some people are harsh critics!

Firstly - Many, many people believe draw reins help with rearing as they encourage or make the head come down. We all know that to be false, but this girl is young, and I would venture a guess she was advised to try the draw reins by an older person who has been told draw reins work for years and years.

Secondly, she is NOT cranking the ponies head down. For a small pony, the head is not in that bad of a spot.

*

Now - I, along with FP and MM don't think this is abuse, but I also see where she is going wrong. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, no?

The main thing is that she isn't unblocking his head enough to get the forward movement she is asking for. I don't know if it is ignorance though - She may be holding on to the reins for security - I know how hard it is to teach a scared young child to relax on the reins on a rearing pony. It is taught from a young age that reins are security and to let them go on a naughty horse takes a lot of courage. That is why a lot of horses start rearing in the first place - Well intentioned people holding too tight on the rein because it makes them feel secure.

I also don't think the pony is rearing at something - I think from what I see that it has a confirmed habit.

I think this is a young girl trying her best to do what she can in a bad situation with some bad advice. I dont' for a second think there is any malice involved.

Rearing is the most dangerous habit a horse can have. I saw a good friend of mine snap his should in half when the horse he was on as I rode toward him flipped over on him.

If any horse i'm sitting on even thinks about rearing, I will do whatever it takes to keep those feet on the ground and redirect the mind - Mostly that is making the horse think it will die if it doesn't move forward. I growl for all i'm worth, give it a boot, whack with reins (I don't ride with a whip). I honestly don't give a hoot what the horse is thinking or feeling at that second, they WILL go forward and they WILL go NOW.

After you avert the wreck, is the time to investigate possible causes, etc.

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post #28 of 43 Old 10-12-2010, 11:40 PM
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Because bucking out a miniature pony that's skeletal frame isn't designed to take even HALF of what's being slammed into it's back is exactly the same as attempting to correct a confirmed rearer.

The most ironic part? It's BECAUSE of crap like in the bucking pony video that you GET videos like THIS - kids trying to fix a colossal problem someone else created out of sheer ignorance and stupidity.

She is not cranking his face, watch the video again because that is ridiculous. No, she is not doing everything right, but she certainly isn't MAKING him rear - he is hellbent on rearing and she simply isn't offering him any other options. She is not beating him, she's not YANKING on him, she's doing her best to help fix an already man made problem by morons EXACTLY like in the bucking pony video.

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I hope God tells her to smash her computer with a sledgehammer.

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post #29 of 43 Old 10-12-2010, 11:57 PM
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Look at :20 seconds. She pulled delibertly and then kicked at the same time. Although towards the middle she was sending him forward, that one time was still in the pony's head. You can tell he has no respect for her and has full intentions of leaving without her. His rears are now dangerous and should not be treated lightly. Rewatching this for a third time I think she did the wrong thing and shouldn't continue to treat this as she did. She should have got off and lunged him until he respected her again and then got back on to regain her dominance. Although I do not suggest always getting off and letting a horse get away with it. But I also believe that respect needs to be earned, not forced. Understand?

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post #30 of 43 Old 10-13-2010, 12:37 AM
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the video dosne't disguast me at all what disguasts me is the comments -_-* has anyone read them?!?!?!? (for the video itself LOL not here) everyone was like good job for staying on yada yada yada then one person comes along with critique and gets comments removed AND called a fat (insert bad word) american and all americans are fat (insert bad word) im like wooooow then apparentely she is a trained professional and going to the "biggest horse show in the world" so im like very pateriotic american so that's bad enough to call us fat american (insert bad word) but to be an amaaaaazing trained profesional GAAAAAH

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