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German rider and her training

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        10-10-2008, 05:03 PM
      #11
    Zab
    Yearling
    And when ever is it right to pull the horses nose in that far? What do you achieve other than that the horse learns to not raise the head?
    Tere's so much wrong with that method I can't even be bothered to start arguing about it, but mainly; it defeats all that dressage once stood for; strength, balance and harmony.
    Rollkured horses are on their shoulders; they don't work through their back because frankly, they're trained to disconnect ther headset from thir backs etc etc

    Besides, I can't understand how anyone can win when their horse can't stand still.
         
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        10-10-2008, 05:10 PM
      #12
    Foal
    I don't agree with rollkur, I believe it's against the horses nature and shouldn't be used. But when you actually study it and use it properly (Keyword!) it improves a whole lot of things.

    And why she can score so high? Haven't you seen the whole kur? Salinero's passage and piaffe is so strong, he is the master. He gets the highest marks there. Basically that horse is an allround horse that has everything to be the best. That he can't stand still is just a small thing and when you look at the marks she gets (8,9,10) and the 4 she gets for the halt, then the halt only makes a small difference.

    You can ask yourself why Isabell still managed to be placed 2th while her horses bucked and just simply came into resistment. And Isabell is in my opinio still a better horsewoman. She can ride bare back and bridleless.
         
        10-10-2008, 05:24 PM
      #13
    Zab
    Yearling
    The entire system is wrong and corrupted. That'salso what makes it pointless to argue about it, people refuse to see with their eyes.

    A judge that judges poorly ''looses'' the rider; and when the topriders refuse to show for that judge, he won't be offered to judge anymore.

    Salineros passage and piaffe are not strong. It's manipulated and even he is on his shoulders. And you'd think the worlds best rider and the worlds best horse should be able to stand still.

    Yes, and I come to the same conclusion as for why Anky won.

    Dressage is not what it's supposed to be anymore. It started failing half a century ago.

    But I'm not going to keep arguing. In this world competition results is everything, and I can't prove anything that people refuse to see even when it's before their eyes.
    But try to actually compare what's said in the TR (or is it FEI there? The rules?) with what you see; poll as highest point, nose on or before the vertical are the most obvious things. If you read it closely and compare it, I'm sure you'l fid more things that doesn't fit.

    If you get to read the book ''tug of war'', it has some good things written in it.

    But that's my last word.
         
        10-11-2008, 08:11 AM
      #14
    Yearling
    Angry

    All I have to say is that I am absolutley disgusted.
         
        10-11-2008, 01:12 PM
      #15
    Foal
    I believe you never ridden on big presure?
    I guess not 'cause I never heard of you.
    The horse is hot, wanting to move. When you force the horse in doing something, making the horse mad in a crucial moment it is devistating for the ride. It's not Salinero's best thing, nor for a lot of horses.
    I think the judges have a better eye on knowing what's proper for the riding (Is the body used well etc) than we do. And I think that Anky knows better than us too.
         
        10-11-2008, 03:36 PM
      #16
    Yearling
    Um I said I was disgusted .... i'm sorry I don't like seeing horses being whiped around like that.....
         
        10-12-2008, 05:57 AM
      #17
    Zab
    Yearling
    I think Merel is talkig to me.

    So you have heard of everyone who has ever ridden under preassure?
    Standing still is very basic in riding. The elite should be able to do it even under pressure.
    ''force'' and ''harmony and balace'' doesn't really go hand in hand, do they?
    Obviously not.

    I have a few books about rollkur, and I'll fresh up my anatomy knowledge, and then I'll post a thread about it here, explaining some stuff and showing some stuff.
    (afterall..I AM educated (in a school) in horse keeping, horse massage, some in farrying, horse anatomy and so on.. it should count for something.. even tho I'm not a good rider it doesn't mean I'm blind or stupid.)
         
        10-12-2008, 08:30 PM
      #18
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zab    
    I think Merel is talkig to me.

    So you have heard of everyone who has ever ridden under preassure?
    Standing still is very basic in riding. The elite should be able to do it even under pressure.
    ''force'' and ''harmony and balace'' doesn't really go hand in hand, do they?
    Obviously not.

    I have a few books about rollkur, and I'll fresh up my anatomy knowledge, and then I'll post a thread about it here, explaining some stuff and showing some stuff.
    (afterall..I AM educated (in a school) in horse keeping, horse massage, some in farrying, horse anatomy and so on.. it should count for something.. even tho I'm not a good rider it doesn't mean I'm blind or stupid.)
    ohh ok and man I agree everything you are saying you have already took the words out of my mouth so I guess I have nothing else to say either.
         
        10-13-2008, 02:05 AM
      #19
    Yearling
    Hence the fact I only believe in natrual dressage
         
        10-14-2008, 02:46 PM
      #20
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zab    
    I think Merel is talkig to me.

    So you have heard of everyone who has ever ridden under preassure?
    Standing still is very basic in riding. The elite should be able to do it even under pressure.
    ''force'' and ''harmony and balace'' doesn't really go hand in hand, do they?
    Obviously not.

    I have a few books about rollkur, and I'll fresh up my anatomy knowledge, and then I'll post a thread about it here, explaining some stuff and showing some stuff.
    (afterall..I AM educated (in a school) in horse keeping, horse massage, some in farrying, horse anatomy and so on.. it should count for something.. even tho I'm not a good rider it doesn't mean I'm blind or stupid.)
    Well, go on! Though it's a little bit more difficult to understand in English.
    I absolutely agree on you that standing still is a basic thing that should be known by every horse on every level. But when i'm reading on what Anky or Imke or any rider on GP level, have to say about it ,for that matter than i'm thinking:'Well, maybe it's harder for a horse on that level because of all the tension etc.'
    AND when your scores are that good as Anky gets them (May not be diserved, rumor has it that Sjef is quite a manipulator in his own way) standing still is just a very small thing that barerly even makes a difference on the score. Anky even forget to greet when she was done, she still scored 81% But then there is it that the level of top dressage these days is much higher than it was 30 years ago while the judgingsystem is still the same, you could see that with a few competitors. But now i'm ranting off. I've read Anky's explanation on rollkur or 'LDR' which is more kind to put it. You get pulled to two sides.
    But again, I absolutely do not agree on LDR and I would never try doing it to my horse. I just don't really know what to believe anymore. Everyone has their opinio and their facts on it.
         

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