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Lunging session

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        10-22-2013, 03:38 PM
      #11
    Yearling
    Thanks for the great responses everyone. Now, need to think how to get through it all.
    1) I walk with him sometimes, I tend to shorten the rope then, so I keep the same circle, but I can control him a little better, encourage him or so. As he is a big, young, and a bit stiff horse, I do not want to ask him to go in small circles. I do have a 3m (i guess around 10 ft) rope, but that is WAY too short to do any work in atm, and have the end for me to correct him with.
    2) When wiggling the rope, he does flick his ear to me or something, and I try not to stop before he responds, but my arms get tired of it. And when I try to pull him in he either starts running like mad or pulls me out of place, and he is hard to hold when he starts pulling.. But we are working on it. I was actually thinking about work on the 3 m line to keep him a bit more under control..
    3) Angling myself to his rear might be hard sometimes, especially on right hand circle - he does not see me (right eye is gone), I have to be careful to send him on that side, as he quite often moves faster than asked. Just because he is confused with the sounds he hears, so I try to be extra subtle there.. But will try with the other side.. He does quite often actually get his head inwards to see me better, flicks his ears towards me and gives me this high eye, staring down at me
    4) I am working hard with space boundaries - I like him coming up to me for hugs in the pasture, on the lunge he usually waits to be invited in, and never brushes on me, he comes about 3 ft away from me and waits for my reaction. There I usually touch him, tell him he is a good boy, and only sometimes go one step closer, hug his head and send him back out..
    5) I am giving him vocal commands - without those we cannot lunge due to one blind side. Every time I am shaking the rope, he also hears a "trrr" which is meant for slow down. Must confess that he pissed me off sometimes and I had to reset myself, to calm down and breathe calm.
    6) I am trying to be more clear with my arms, body signals when changing directions, but I guess I am used to the old way. Teddy turns when you ask him to slow to walk, switch hands for whip and lunge line, say "turn" and he goes... Grand is learning.
    7) I really wish I had a round pen, but I cannot make one just now. Then it would be a lot easier to change directions etc. When he starts to take off like in the first video, it is very hard. And mind you, he is on 24/7 pasture, he runs with his buddy when ever they feel like it. When on the lunge he still feels like he needs to run... Ok, his energy feed might be a little high for his work amount, but it's there to gain weight and we do not have access to rice bran, or beat pulp or stuff like that.
    8) I do not feel very comfortable for him to start trotting and cantering immediately when on the lunge because, we are not there to just bolt, the ground is not the best, he did have 2 legs injured this summer (left fore muscle near the cannon bone, left hind kicked, stifle was swollen). He seems sound, I am counting the left side weird due to the ground, as he moves differently on both sides. I am sure that has to do with the eye..
    Overall he has had about 3 lunges since his injury, then it was 2 months off any work, just whatever he did himself being outside (together with the vet decided it is not possible to stall him, as he will go crazy, risk re-injury after returning him on the field, and even a smaller paddock next to his buddy might mean he slips more trying to reach him - but he healed fine with moving around 24/7)
    Before that - he has started basics of lunge work this june. This is as far as we have gotten since basically mid june with lots of days off in between (and August, September off), as he is young, was never worked, his feet were horrible, but we had to fix his manners. So ye, I am sad I do not have videos of the first sessions.


    I am very grateful for your input, and will sure try, and then try to film some more so that we can talk some more :) I have learnt my ways of training horses from a few trainers that have been around me, and of course on this side of the world the methods are a bit different, but if I manage to correct myself and see difference in the horse, I always adapt the method. I always change the way I work when I see something works better for one or the other horse.
         
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        10-23-2013, 10:01 AM
      #12
    Yearling
    I gave him a day off, and took him today on the 10 ft line. At first he was slightly confused, then I asked him to turn every half circle, stretching my arms out, right one showing to turn to right side, left one holding the other end of the rope slowly swinging got his attention, and he turned that way easy. Worked a lot more on getting reactions out when asking to stop, as on the blind side he does not see me switch hands on the line. But turned his head in and then it went smooth again.
    He was not trying to bolt this time.
    Also tried angling more towards his hip on the left side, he immediately started paying a little more attention.
    We had some issues with yielding his hindquarters, he occasionally stands like he wants to kick, or just not move, he tends to run backwards, forwards, but does not really want to move the hind sideways. But I got it out of him a few times on both sides. He needs more of a tug on his head, and a rope touching his bum, but he does it.
    Backing up is becoming more perfect - I can back him up from a little bigger distance as well. When he pays attention. When he doesnt, he sees me become a horse eating monster.
    Overall He seemed better. Tried to get him to walk faster with me as well, I get fed up with him trailing behind me 2-3 ft away. When encouraged with the rope he either wants to back up, or bolt. When I keep up with his trot, just to show him that it is ok to be shoulder to shoulder, he starts pinning his ears, arching his neck and looking really inside, towards me, but arching his body a bit away. He really does not like me running along, however, I need him to do that too.
    Hopefully another time I can film it again, or someone might do it for me. That's the sad part of working horses alone.
         
        10-23-2013, 11:06 AM
      #13
    Super Moderator
    This is just an aside ,but how is it that you speak such good English ?
         
        10-23-2013, 12:59 PM
      #14
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tinyliny    
    This is just an aside ,but how is it that you speak such good English ?
    hehe, I was in in a European School to finish high school, all in English, and did my BA in Scotland. So 8 years of speaking English on daily basis gives you some ability to speak the language
    tinyliny likes this.
         
        10-23-2013, 02:04 PM
      #15
    Green Broke
    Tinyling--That's just how I was taught. That it gives the horse a good anchor so they are less all over the place.
         
        10-23-2013, 02:58 PM
      #16
    Foal
    When wanting him to stop....step to the side out in front of his shoulder...may have to take 2 or 3 big steps at first to get way in front of his shoulder more like out in front of his nose...he will stop a lot better for ya....changing hands doesnt have a lot of effect. Wont take long and only have to take a bay step and he will lock right up.Then t get him to turn and face when stopping..take some steps backwards away from him but slack in the rope. Glad he did better for you with the things your tried.
    Cherrij likes this.
         
        10-23-2013, 02:59 PM
      #17
    Foal
    Ooops bay = baby
         
        10-23-2013, 03:57 PM
      #18
    Yearling
    A lot of the previous horses I trained to lunged never had difficulty, however, with this one I want to make it perfect. I doubt that he will notice me even if I am more to his shoulder when asking to turn from the blind side though.. he does listen then, but quite often feels like he is not very comfortable on that side. And feels better bolting off when on the long line, as he must know I cannot do much to him.
    Even though today was a padded halter, not a rope halter, he also looked like he has understood some stuff from last time. That is why the video is from a training session, work in progress, not showing off what he really can do..
    Hey, with the little days of training he has done, I think he is quite far. It only took one rough farrier visit to get him to stand nicely. OK, the last time, 2 days ago, he did try to lean down, but with strongly telling him to stand and be calm, he stood and waited for the work to be done.

    I will try more with the long line tomorrow, if I am not too lazy or too busy. Don't want to overwork him too fast either.
         
        10-23-2013, 04:17 PM
      #19
    Super Moderator
    I think since the hrose is blind on one side, you should start spending more time on his blind side. Get him used to responding to "feel" from that side, and offer him a constant and responsive feel to follow. That can be transmitted down a line, especially if it is a good heavy line. I'd get a heavy rope leadline that is a good 15 long. Attach it to the rope halter, and use this to lunge with . But, before lunging, work on leading skills. Your description of him pining his ears when you trot along side him makes me thing that there is some bad feeling in him about this, and he may not have either enough respect for you , nor as much reliance on your feel to guide him when you are leading him.

    Have you ever read Bill Dorrance and Leslie Desmond's book, "True Horsemanship Through Feel"? The "feel" is something that is extremely important.

    For example, when lunging, you can make a hrose turn by pushing (mentally or with a whip) on his hindquarters to make them go out away from you.

    OR

    You can make the horse get ready by himself, position his feet as needed, and make a turn by sending a feel down the lead line. The feel goes to his mind. His head, but it's talking him into the idea that it's time to follow that rope, and the rops is saying, "hey, over here, bring your head around and get your back feet under you, rock back and put your front feet over and change directions." You bring the head around, and the feet follow the head, instead of chasing the hind away and thus forcing the head around because you are holding it with the rope.

    All of this is based on getting the hroes to realize that the rope has a feel to it, and it means something, and he is always following the feel. He is always trying to keep that feel soft, so that there is a slight slack in the rope, becuase if he pulls on it, the feel will become hard, if he gives, it becomes soft.

    I can tell I am in rambling mode now, so will leave off , but do find and read this book. It is written in the manner that Mr. Dorrance spoke, so a very strange English maybe, but I am sure you can do it.
    Cherrij likes this.
         
        10-23-2013, 05:05 PM
      #20
    Yearling
    Tinyliny, Thanks for so much input!
    I totally understand what you mean, and I will try to get that book, if any of the sellers ship to me, or at least my mother (in another European country).

    I am increasing his time on the blind side now, And it is a lot harder, as he occasionally wants to switch back before I ask him to. I make him go back on that side, and work some more.

    At the moment, when turning, especially today, I did not have to turn his hind to ask him to change direction, He felt my thought the moment my hands switched. On the seeing side. Need to work it out better on that other side.. When I took this on, I knew there is going to be loads of work, loads of corrections in the way I am used to work with horses, But I am definitely up to it and determined to make this horse succeed in anything we decide we want to do :P He has a big heart.

    Normally, for small things, he respects me very well, if he gets out of line, a loud "hey" gets him listening, and checking what he did wrong. He backs up perfect, yielding to side needs to be worked on... I have always struggled with that. I can send them out, send them backwards, yield their hindquarters (ok, with Grand not just by looking, but soon) etc. But cannot make them side step to give me their space.. So something is lacking in my abilities, and I am really trying to figure it out.

    Even today I was watching some liberty work and I thought to myself " I have this blank page of a horse, that I can build into anything I want... how to do it?"
    I would love to have that "feel" to the point we work in perfect harmony on the lunge, off the lunge, and of course when riding.. I know it all takes time, but I do not have the right feel at the moment.. Though it feels like, on the blind side, he feels the need to have the harder "feel" because he cannot see, he pulls the line strong, so he can feel me...
    He sometimes feels young and dumb, as he has issues reading the other horse too.. for one, he did lose his eye being kicked in the face. For 2, his hindleg was sore after being kicked. He is fast enough, and reacts fast normally, but he has been too slow twice already, if not more.
         

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