Parelli - Horsemanship?! - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 61 Old 10-23-2010, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Snookeys View Post
I'm sure it took some amount of training before your horse got to that point, though? I don't think any horse will just automatically know what "back" means and associate it with the action unless they are taught...
My point was that I didn't have to take a lead and shank it in his face to get what I wanted.

A few sessions of just putting my hand on his chest and applying pressure with the word was enough.

And how long did it take? By age 2 he had all the fundamentals needed including lateral work and I hadn't even sat on him.

Whipping leads in their faces so they back out of fear is never a good way to train.
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post #22 of 61 Old 10-23-2010, 09:38 AM
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this is all crap. i don't belive in force but i also don't belive in naturtal hormanship. i belive you should ern your horses trust then teach him thing with respect for him, learn you boundrys when he learn his. i still think natural hosemanship is fake.

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post #23 of 61 Old 10-23-2010, 05:33 PM
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I do NOT get what they are trying to accomplish with the horse. Maybe it's because I'm watching it without the sound out of respect for others in the room? But what the hell is this woman doing? This is what I see: Horse walking calmly behind her, so she starts violently flailing the lead at him, horse gets really tense, and she continues to flail it.

What the eff is going on here?
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post #24 of 61 Old 10-23-2010, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by StormyBlues View Post
This was also taken very much out of context. She's teaching the ask, tell, demand theory. You ask the horse to back by shaking the lead, tell by shaking it harder, and demand with the pop. Right after the pop you release when the horse does what you want. She doesn't go around hitting horses faces for no reason
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How do you take a video out of context? Would you enjoy me snapping a metal type clasp on your chin? Ever wondered why you are hearing more about animal trainers and there almost fatal attacks, this type of manhandleing is how starts. I have seen Parelli's and other training techniques and I have one question for all, ever had two horses or any other animal with the same personality? how do you expect to train every horse with the same techniques when there are no two animals alike.
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post #25 of 61 Old 10-23-2010, 07:14 PM
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Good post ^^

Horses are scared of two things... Things that move and things that don't.
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post #26 of 61 Old 10-23-2010, 11:06 PM
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I have one question for all, ever had two horses or any other animal with the same personality? how do you expect to train every horse with the same techniques when there are no two animals alike.
Yes, no two animals are alike. Our two horses are SO DIFFERENT! One is very sweet and timid, the other very bossy and mischievious. I have not done Parellis, so I'm not saying their method is correct, but I think the point of the video was to teach the student how much force you may have to use not that you do have to use that much force to get the horse to listen to you. If the horse responds with a gentle wiggle of the lead or a push of the hand - great. Some don't and more force is needed. Our first horse had horrible ground manners when we got him. He would rear on me, bite me, run me into fences, etc. I didn't know about the Parelli stuff when we got him, so a lot was trial and error. He got the handle end of a crop on his nose numerous times every time he tried to bite me. He would lower his head in a submissive pose, but I could see him looking at me waiting for a chance to attack. He would normally do this if someone walked by me and distracted me by saying, "Hello." Now this all may sound like I'm heavy handed, but this is what was required to get him in line - he wants to be the boss, so I have to be extra alert to this. He has gotten much better, especially after a bowed tendon, where I had to hand walk him for months. The other horse is such a dream to walk, other than she's timid and tend to spook easily and often land on my feet. Each horse is different, but they mostly they all tend to react a certain way to things like shaking the lead, so it can be used in various degrees depending upon the horse.
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post #27 of 61 Old 10-24-2010, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Mickey4793 View Post
I do NOT get what they are trying to accomplish with the horse. Maybe it's because I'm watching it without the sound out of respect for others in the room? But what the hell is this woman doing? This is what I see: Horse walking calmly behind her, so she starts violently flailing the lead at him, horse gets really tense, and she continues to flail it.

What the heck is going on here?
You totally missed the actions that caused them to ask the horse to back off...horse rushes forward and passed handler, or rushes up against handler, pushes at handler, etc...THESE are the actions they were retraining the horse against. When he was walking nicely, they left him alone. Yes, they were still teaching him to back off per cue (which started with a light lead shake), it was only when he persisted in pushing against that, and still went rushing foward and evaded what the handler (s) were asking, that they upped the level of the cue.

I don't see fear in that horse...and I think some people tend to think that ask, tell, demand is "too hard" for a horse to understand. I don't. What do horses do to each other in the pasture? Pin an ear, and look in the direction of the horse being 'asked' to move, if that don't work a few steps toward horse, and if that don't work, the horse telling other horse to move, steps into action; either biting or by kicking the other horse to make him MOVE NOW! I am totally "for" being as kind as I can to a horse, but I WILL be as firm as necessary to keep myself, AND the horse out of danger, and being injured. If that means the occasional pop by a lead rope clip so be it, because I would prefer to have the horse aware of me, than running over or right by me, like the Arab in this video. That's asking for trouble...more so for the handler, but the horse could get loose, and be in even more danger, so the street goes both ways.

Now am I 'into' the NH craze? No, because I've used alot of similar methods since I was a kid, and was taught those methods by other trainers who had been in the training business for years and years prior to that...I prefer to call it common sense and just good horsemanship. NH, if you want to call it that has been around for years and years...it's just that popular trainers have made it more "well known".

"The ideal horseman has the courage of a lion, the patience of a saint, and the hands of a woman..."
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post #28 of 61 Old 10-24-2010, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by meemoicloee23 View Post
this is all crap. i don't belive in force but i also don't belive in naturtal hormanship. i belive you should ern your horses trust then teach him thing with respect for him, learn you boundrys when he learn his. i still think natural hosemanship is fake.
But spell check is very real and would vastly improve your posts.

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post #29 of 61 Old 10-24-2010, 02:38 AM
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Oh and csuebele hit the nail on the head in regard to how to handle each horse...with some horses all it will take IS a shake of the lead, or even the appearance that that is coming. Others, you may have to get louder like the Arab in the vid...instead of backing off, he raced foward and tried to avoid what was being asked, so they had to up the cue. Pretty simple in my book, and that "method" works in any horse....ask tell demand...some horses will never need more than the "ask" phase, where others are always dwelling in the "demand"; such as the case of the dominant horse in csue's post.

"The ideal horseman has the courage of a lion, the patience of a saint, and the hands of a woman..."
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post #30 of 61 Old 10-24-2010, 03:26 AM
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Ask, Tell, Demand. I use this a lot when training a horse to do something. But what I saw was 'ask, DEMAND DEMAND DEMAND' and than a little extra DEMAND just in case the horse didnt get it the last 5 pops.

What really bothers me is Linda thinks its funny. Every time that horse got a full blow she made an evil blood chilling 'giggle'. Is it somehow plesant to hurt a horse?

I will go as far as I have to, to get a specific reaction. But once I get it I stop and praise, rinse and repete. Linda just likes to keep going... Her mental health worries me!
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