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post #21 of 31 Old 04-25-2010, 09:02 PM
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It wasn't that the horse didn't notice the rider had fallen off, because I'm sure that he had. It was that he hadn't been trained to care if the rider had fallen off. Most barrel horses (especially those that act like complete schizoids) do nothing their whole riding life except run that pattern so that is all he knows. And I don't know about you but in the races I have seen, it is a rare thing to see a rider that isn't either yanking on their horse's face to get them to stop and turn or jabbing them with spurs and an over/under every stride. I would consider that getting beat on a regular basis. I wear spurs on my broke horses but the last time that I had to use one with any more than just a slight nudge to get what I wanted was over a year ago.
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post #22 of 31 Old 04-25-2010, 10:03 PM
Green Broke
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Thanks smrobs. You got the gist of what I was saying. I'm not saying he WAS beat, I said it was LIKELY. Knowing the barrel racing circuit and watching the neurosis of a barrel horse, these horses have partially cracked minds coming into an arena. They're so geared up and amped up, it's very likely they ARE oblivious to a rider falling off. Their only job in life is to get around that pattern the fastest. You drill that into ANY creature enough, and you're going to have an animal that can do it on it's own.

You're just taking words from my mouth now - I never said it WAS, I said it was LIKELY. The OP threw a snit fit because she didn't like me voicing my opinions, and I am merely pointing out the fallacy of her temper tantrum.

I don't try to be a downer by natural, but I DO honestly find it concerning that people think these animals are happy. Barrel racing is like it's own hidden underground grotesque industry that could darn near rivel the big lick TWH for abuses suffered. Just like the TWH, there are obviously people who are attempting to move away from it, but between the constantly spurring, whipping and massive vicious bits they pound these horses with, it's disappointing more people aren't aware of how abusive most barrel racing is, and how few (no) rules they have to protect the welfare of the horse. You could literally run a horse in a barbed wire bit and nothing is stopping you.

I hope God tells her to smash her computer with a sledgehammer.

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post #23 of 31 Old 04-25-2010, 10:58 PM
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I agree a bit with macabre, especially with gaming horses; most of those horses don't know how to walk, and if they do, once you get them 'hyped up' the calm goes out the window. Now this isn't every gamer, as I teach every horse I own to STOP when they feel me falling off, as do others, but the vast majority aren't focused on that aspect of training...they just want a fast horse, who can run the patterns blindfolded-when the horse is burnt out, or no longer will go in the gate, they are usually sold off, and a new one takes their place; many gaming horses will game 6-7 months out of the year, and in the off season, geuss what they do? Practice their patterns... I think I would know how to finish a pattern if my rider fell off too. Like I said, this is not ALL gaming horses, but I would say 70% of the people I showed with when I showed were like this, so it is a fairly safe generalization that many are, and for good reason.

As far as how these horses are handled, again, I have to agree with macabre again; have you ever watched even national finals type barrel racing? Those riders look like they are going to take off flying off their horses backs they are so busy kicking them. And of course at the same time they are flacking them with their bats or romels. My trainer when I was a kid would roll over in her grave if she watched some of the vids now a days of gaming horses/riders. Not only are the horses so hyped that they are uncontrollable, but the riders have no where near a quiet seat, and I'm sorry but I don't care WHAT the discipline, you can ride with a quiet seat and still get the most from your horse!!!! Plus it looks plain ridiculous to ride like a flying fairy! You're riding a horse, so darn it put your arms and legs down and flippin' ride!!!!

"The ideal horseman has the courage of a lion, the patience of a saint, and the hands of a woman..."

Last edited by mom2pride; 04-25-2010 at 11:03 PM.
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post #24 of 31 Old 04-26-2010, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
Green Broke
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We DRILL a lot of stuff into our horses head. It isn't my fault those horses didn't have the proper things DRILLED into their head. That WAS NOT THE POINT OF MY THREAD!

I'll address the other comments on me "temper tantrum" later.
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post #25 of 31 Old 04-26-2010, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Strange View Post
That horse almost caught a leg on that fence. I was more horrified than anything else. Granted, that's quite a feat, but not something I would want my horse doing ever.
I know it did give it a bang! Listening to what the person behind the camera was saying and the fact that they where laughing at the poor think i dont blame him for jumping out!

Keep your feet on the ground when your head's in the clouds.
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post #26 of 31 Old 04-26-2010, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by smrobs View Post
And I don't know about you but in the races I have seen, it is a rare thing to see a rider that isn't either yanking on their horse's face to get them to stop and turn or jabbing them with spurs and an over/under every stride. I would consider that getting beat on a regular basis.
If I'm a horse, that's an argument for either stopping or trying to run out of the ring. Not continuing on doing something I hate.

And macabre, I agree with you about barrel racing but that is not what we're discussing here either. I can't help but notice you avoided my other questions.
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post #27 of 31 Old 04-26-2010, 08:06 PM Thread Starter
Green Broke
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Ok so..

I apologize for my wording in my earlier post. That was immature of me. I was having a rough day. I don't take back what I said, just the way I said it. Nobody is going to learn from rude comments and general meanness. Especially on the internet where you can't talk face to face.

That is why I said that I would come back to discuss my "temper tantrum". I needed to space myself from this topic until I had a more level head.

I'm not saying that I don't agree with the people who think a horse should stand stock still when someone falls off. I completely agree with that. One of the things that did bug me was the fact that Macabre went on about how the horses felt they had to finish to course without knowing any specific history on the horses. The one horse even CAME BACK to finish the course. He ran off the opposite direction and then ran the third barrel. From what I see it looked like they had closed the gate to the chute. So he probably thought the only way to get into the chute was to finish the third barrel. That is the reason I liked that one. Of course the last two videos are so out of focus and distorted I can't really tell what the riders part played in it all.

If this was a "lollipop" world every horse would be perfectly trained and think riding was the greatest thing since alfalfa. It's not. I didn't post those videos to open up a discussion about how poorly trained these particular horses are. As you said, this is a public forum and you can say what you want. You could have also, started a new topic on teaching your horse to stop if you were to fall off.

I did feel a little attacked. I wanted to share these videos because

A. That horse looks really awesome spinning without a rider. He looked a bit proud (sorry for the "human" emotion) himself after he finished the spin. He is a very pretty horse.

B. That horse is cutting cows by himself! How many ranchers want one of those? He's awesome at it. It made me wonder if the breeding that people put into horses actual produces cowy horses the way we produce field hunting pointing bred dogs.

C. The last two were cool because I have seen several barrel races and used to board at a western barn that did a lot of training and I've never seen a horse finish the course on it's own. As I said above I thought the last one was cool because he actual CAME BACK and finished the last barrel.

Call it what you want, I just thought the videos were cool. I will not argue over this anymore though. I'm a passive person and don't like arguing much.
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post #28 of 31 Old 05-03-2010, 04:47 PM
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I thought the videos were cool, whether or not it's right for a horse to do it out of will or just because it's been drilled into their heads. The barrel racers finished, obviously because thats what they know to do. Some might not finish and just take off back to the chutes, others finish...thats just the way it is. Either way, yea it's cool even though it happens all the time. The horse spinning...thats pretty cool. And the cutter...that was just awesome!!

- If today was your last day, and tomorrow was too late, could you say goodbye to yesterday?
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post #29 of 31 Old 05-06-2010, 03:12 PM
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Yikes, I have to admit, the video Smrobs posted made me cringe. Some of those riders are extremely harsh on their horses mouths. O.o A few the riders were the only reason their horses fell down was because they pulled so frickin hard on their reins as they were turning. Ouch!
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post #30 of 31 Old 05-10-2010, 05:12 PM
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I like how smrobs' video showed the worst of the worst barrel racers, haha. That being said, I know a girl who games, and she has never dropped a horse on a turn. The difference is that the girl I know knows how to ride, and the people in that video try their darndest to stay on and be very, very fast.

I also have to back up Macabre. I know for a fact she cares about her horses. The threads she starts are usually to find a way to better work with her horses, or overcome a problem. If she didn't care if her horses were miserable, would she bother asking for advice and input? Sorry, I just happen to be a Macabre [and Jynx] fan. =]

About the original videos, I do think the spinner is cute. He does look proud. Yes, I bet he was being cued. Regardless, it was neat. The cutting horse is also beautiful to watch. I'd love to work cows with my little QH filly. She's simply too "smart" to prance around a ring like a robot, she needs to be able to think some. The barrel racers probably only know to barrel race. That's what they do. It is common in the gaming world. Horses learn to run really fast, turn even faster, and if they want to avoid a beating, they have to do just that. It's sad, but it happens. Not EVER gamer, but a lot.

I have also seen a horse take a jump in the Rolex [I think] after losing a rider. The horse was confused, very excited, and was cantering around like, "What's going on? Rider? Oh, jump.... Oof, what now? Huh?" You could see it in his face.

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."
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