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Soring *WARNING* extremely graphic

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  • Training practices in american saddlebreds
  • Saddlebreds in a biting rig

 
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    01-30-2010, 12:38 AM
  #11
Yearling
I have whatched those videos before. I will NOT watch them again... Yes it is very sad and cruel. Maybe someday it will change.
Some people will do anything to win....
     
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    01-30-2010, 12:40 PM
  #12
Foal
Personally...I think that is probably the ugliest gait I have ever seen. It just looks so un-natural & very painful.

No horse should have to go through the suffering of soring...
     
    01-30-2010, 01:43 PM
  #13
Yearling
While I was living in TN recently the shows for TN Walkers were cancelled many times because of the soring practices that were found there.
     
    01-30-2010, 11:10 PM
  #14
Foal
If I may address statements made about American Saddlebreds -

<u>We do not sore!</u> In a breed where being "square" is a must, soring (on top of being a deplorable practice) is just plain counter-intuitive. Just because our horses wear wedge-pads, please don't automatically lump us in with Big-Lick Walkers.

Since when was a simple snaffle (bradoon) cruel? Saddlebreds are <i>shown</i> in a double bridle (which often has a simple curb bit), but most often at home are trained in a simple snaffle. If a horse doesn't have the ability to "jack it's head up" (to quote the original post) naturally, there is very little training could do to teach them. These horses are often placed in divisions like Hunt and Western, both of which are very popular, or are sold to sporthorse owners as prospects. Once a horse who is capable is taught to "wear" the double-bridle, in most cases very little practice in one is required.

Yes, many Saddlebreds do wear bitting rigs as a training tool, however they are not used in the manner/for the purpose you described. A bitting rig is more commonly set up with side checks than an over-check, and is always carefully adjusted so as not to be uncomfortable. The purpose is to teach the horse to relax "off" the bit, as opposed to Dressage horses that are taught to do the exact opposite and go down to the bit. Having a bitting rig too tight just teaches the horse to hang on the bit, which is the exact opposite of what is wanted. I have also never heard of a bitting rig used for more than 20 minutes, and they are usually used under careful supervision while the horse can move freely in a round-pen. If you knew someone who left one on for several days, than you were observing an idiot of the first class.

Action devices (chains and stretchies/rubber bands) are a common practice, but the horses aren't forced to use them. If a horse chooses not to, it will not pick up it's feet higher with a chain or pull against the resistance of the ribber bands. You can't make a horse pick it's feet up any higher than the horse has the ability or want to do so.

There are plenty of videos out there of day-old Saddlebred foals trotting at or above level with their heads held high. We do breed for it, and we often get it. Here is a wonderful example #
     
    01-31-2010, 11:53 PM
  #15
Foal
Also Responding to the comment about Saddlebreds-

Before we go about making accusations about Saddlebreds Why don't we look into "cruelties" of Quarter Horses, Dressage, Arabs, ect... There is good and bad in everything.

Why don't we all do some reading up on this fabulous breed

Saddlebred are fabulous horses with big hearts and a bit step. How Manny breeds of horses can Be shown in Dressage, Eventing, Western Pleasure, , Gaming, and other western events, Driving weather it be Combined Driving, Fine Harness or Pleasure, Hunter/Jumper, Fox Hunting, Side saddle and of course Saddleseat, And on top of it all Be Gaited?


Oh and grow a seven foot long tail
     
    02-07-2010, 03:37 PM
  #16
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by dressagebelle    
Its the same thing with Saddlebreds. They want that REALLY high stepping movement, and very high head carriage, so they also pad the horses feet, though not near as much as Walkers, and also do chains, ect., though I've never heard of them soring a saddlebred, but I'm sure that its probably been done. And then all the equipment, and harsh bits they use to keep the horse's head jacked up. I know someone who worked at a Saddlebred and Hackney farm, and when they started training the horses, one of the first things they do, is use a bitting rig. They put a bridle on the horse, and a special surcingle, and essentially the equivalent of an overcheck rein, and tie the horse's head so that the ONLY way they can eat is if they break at the poll, and hold their head "just right", and then they leave them like that for a couple of days in the stall, and feed the horse in the feeder. They already breed for huge front leg movement, and then they try to make it even more dramatic. The horses that don't want to step high at all are still forced to move like that, instead of being "culled" out of the herd, and sold or used for something else. All these enchancements, whether they be drugs, tack, shoes, ect., to over exaggerate movement, or attitude, or muscling ect, kind of defeat the entire purpose of selective breeding. It should be enough to breed for that time of movement, and use what the horse was ALREADY born with, and just breed the more animated horses together, than to accentuate it in any way possible.
This is so ridiculous. I'm so tired of people bringing Saddlebreds into every single thread about soring, and I'm tired of explaining it calmly. Saddlebreds ARE NOT SORED. Saddlebreds are BRED to move the way they do, as are Hackneys, Morgans, Arabians, Friesians, etc. Tennessee Walking Horses were NOT bred to move like that. They were bred to have about as much leg action as a Paso Fino. THEY are abused and forced artificially and inhumanely to move the way the Big Lick Walkers do. They took a horse that moved nothing like a Saddlebred and forced it to move even more dramatically. It's horrible and I don't agree with it one bit, but it is NOT the same way with Saddlebreds.


Please read my post here, and especially look at the pictures I posted of trotting Saddlebred foals: TWH's banned from 2010 equestrian games.WHY? RANT


I hate Big Lick Walkers - obviously because of the abuse that goes on and the absolute destruction of the breed that they once were - but also because of how they've ruined the reputation of other saddle seat breeds. People like YOU, dressagebelle, ruin the reputation of other saddle seat breeds with your ignorance. You either don't take the time to understand our training methods (because they look so different to yours that you just automatically assume they are abusive) or you find ONE abusive barn to base your entire opinion of the breed on.

One example of the complete ignorance of you Saddlebred-bashers is how they go on and on about the harsh bits we use. Well guess what? Saddlebreds are ridden in SNAFFLES at home. They are put in a double bridle one or two rides before the show, they are ridden in it AT the show, and they are immediately put back in a snaffle when they get back home. That's how it's always been done.

Another example of YOUR ignorance is the statement "I've never heard of them soring a saddlebred, but I'm sure that its probably been done."

Uh, what exactly is that opinion based on? It's because Saddlebreds and Walkers move in a similar way, right? And Walkers are sored, so Saddlebreds must be too. Right?

No... Saddlebreds have been moving that way LONG before Walkers were. The TWHBEA INVENTED soring. Saddlebreds CANNOT be sored because ALL Saddlebred disciplines require them to trot. NO TWH disciplines ask for the trot. At the trot, it would be blantantly obvious that they were sored.

Yes, some Saddlebred barns abuse their horses. But the majority of them don't. That's how it is in EVERY single breed. With Big Lick Walkers, the opposite is true. The majority of them are abused and the minority is not (although I still think forcing a horse to move that unnaturally is abusive - even if they haven't been sored).


I'm really failing to see why it's so hard for some people to comprehend that Saddlebreds ACTUALLY move like that naturally. Once they get to the show ring they have been somewhat enhaced, but that's how it is for every breed and every discipline. You can't train show horses without changing them somewhat. You can't grab a WP-bred colt out of a pasture,w/j/l him just enough to keep him in shape, and expect him to win. It doesn't work like that. ALL show horses have to be trained and conditioned. Saddlebreds are changed just as much as any other show horse, and Big Lick Walkers are changed MUCH, MUCH, more.
     
    02-07-2010, 07:00 PM
  #17
Green Broke
I agree with CM, soring is to produce an artificial gait, the SB trot is a normal giat for the breed, soring wouldn't enhance this, it would change it. Sure they use light chains and bands, which I do not agree with, but they do very little if any harm to the horses, not like the pads, over the wither rubberbands, and heavy chains(and lets not forget the chemicals) used on big lick horses.

Soring would do the opposite to a SB than it does to a poor BLTWH, it would destroy their natural gait.

Here is a banded SB, note he can still move naturally with the bands, they just force him to work a little harder to build his muscles, but as you can see he is in no stress or pain... And if you will note that that hose can still canter and move like a normal horse, something that a big lick horse cannot do.
     
    02-08-2010, 05:54 AM
  #18
Weanling
Grrrrr I want to CRY!
Urghhh those gaits look hideously man-made. I can't believe people can stand and cheer for these people. It makes me sick to the stomach. ):
     
    02-10-2010, 07:08 PM
  #19
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudsMystique    
I'm really failing to see why it's so hard for some people to comprehend that Saddlebreds ACTUALLY move like that naturally. Once they get to the show ring they have been somewhat enhaced, but that's how it is for every breed and every discipline. You can't train show horses without changing them somewhat. You can't grab a WP-bred colt out of a pasture,w/j/l him just enough to keep him in shape, and expect him to win. It doesn't work like that. ALL show horses have to be trained and conditioned. Saddlebreds are changed just as much as any other show horse, and Big Lick Walkers are changed MUCH, MUCH, more.

I agree with everything you said, but especially this point that you made. It seems to me that a lot of people fail to understand that you are not going to just take a horse out of the pasture, jump on it, and then win a class at a show. There is some kind of training that has to go into it to get there and win. I have found it very frustrating in my recent experiances with selling horses and helping my BO place some of her rescues that people just expect a horse to be dead broke, beginner safe, kid proof, etc right off the bat, they don't relies that somebody has to put some effort into getting the horse that way! It doesn't work that way!

On boards like this I think the vast majority of people fall into either english (hunter/jumper or dressage) or western riders, so they see some of the methods of saddleseat and because they don't understand it they immediately scream abuse. I think that more people need to get the facts before they start sprouting off. There is abuse in every discipline, its simply a hard fact, people are motivated by money and the allure of winning and of owning a winning horse. There are people who take the short cuts which aren't always ethical or beneficial to the horse in every discipline, so those that are throwing stones at any discipline need to turn around and look at their own.
     
    02-10-2010, 08:19 PM
  #20
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by HorseDude    
How many breeds of horses can Be shown in Dressage, Eventing, Western Pleasure, , Gaming, and other western events, Driving, weather it be Combined Driving, Fine Harness or Pleasure, Hunter/Jumper, Fox Hunting, Side saddle and of course Saddleseat, And on top of it all Be Gaited?
Actually, Walking Horses (the NATURAL ones, not sore ones) can do all of this. Walking Horses are one of the most versatile breeds around. I have nothing against Saddlebreds and I couldn't say one way or another what happens in their training. Like someone said, all breeds have their problems. From soring to hyperflexion to the bleeding out in WP horses( I know someone who still does this. Disgusting). It won't stop with as much money as is in all the breeds and shows. And if DQP's would actually throw out all sore horses at the WH shows, then only the flat-shod divisions would remain, with a couple of sound padded horses. All the talk and fighting won't change this, even as much as we try. People will keep doing it until they die, get arrested, majorly fined, or something to bring their attention to how awful what they are doing is. Soring is horrible, but it won't stop.
     

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