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Selling a bolter

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        06-22-2014, 04:46 PM
      #21
    Yearling
    Around here you probably couldn't even give him away. A good broke experienced horse can be found for $1-1.5k. Too many horses and not enough homes. Sorry about your predicament. Sounds like it may be more worth it to you to continue training until his value matches his asking price. As of now he's worthless in my particular area and I certainly wouldn't buy him for any amount. Its a shame to hear these stories because its these type that end up neglected, abused, or on a slaughter truck. Wishing you both the best of luck in retraining and rehoming.
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        06-22-2014, 04:53 PM
      #22
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by phoquess    
    I work with two trainers. Neither of them sell horses, though they're doing their best to spread the word about mine. One my trainers would take him if she could make it work financially (and I'm still trying to poke at that option and see if I can work something out with her.)

    I can't afford to lose ~90% of what I paid for him in selling him for $500. I'm not going to do that. I don't know if anyone else can afford to lose $4000 in a year and still buy another quality horse, but I can't. To be clear, I am not sending him to a rescue or anything like that. I would rather keep him and keep working with him until I find someone with whom I can reach an agreement, and/or he's at the level of training to justify what I'm asking. If the only way I can sell him is at an enormous loss, then it's an impasse, because I won't be able to buy another horse of the kind I need, and I'd rather have my problem pony than be horseless.

    I'm selling him as a hunter potential because he's ribboned in hunter flat classes and has stellar knees-to-chin jump form. I'm selling him as dressage potential because we've done well in eventing-dressage and he has lovely movements with nice impulsion. He has competed and done very well in a couple of B shows, including the Half Arabian Hunter Pleasure Open last weekend with a junior rider. I'd love to take him to more shows but (let me sing you the song of my people) I have trouble affording it. I still may try to take him to the next one available.

    Edit: He's not suitable for eventing because he's terrified of cross-country.
    I get it, I really do. However, you're not considering the other side of the picture. You admit that many people can't lose that much money and still carry on immediately with their horse life - yet you're trying to basically take your very same problem and pass it along to someone else. He is way overpriced for a horse that isn't at least a little trained in a specific discipline and who has such serious problems. I understand and sympathize with your situation, but willing it were different won't change it.

    Have you considered that maybe he has a medical problem that is causing the bolting? What about things like saddle fit? Have you tried other training things like learning a proper one rein stop, or pulley rein, or taking his bolt away from him by making it your idea, or heck, attending bombproofing clinics?

    Skip the shows and send him to more training. If you're going to keep putting money into this horse, put it where it will serve him best.
         
        06-22-2014, 05:38 PM
      #23
    Foal
    I would really appreciate if people would read the thread, and my responses, before offering advice.

    As I've stated, I'm not putting my horse down.

    Quote:
    You have to be honest about everything it does - just because someone lied to you does not make it right for you to repeat that and if you care about the horse you have more chance of finding it the right home by revealing all its faults so the buyer knows exactly what they're getting into than if you sell it to someone who gets hurt and then puts it on a one way trip to a slaughter yard
    You don't want someone getting seriously hurt or worse on your conscience do you?
    Remember this bit in the OP?
    "And I won't sell him without disclosing his vices, because I think that's unethical and dangerous."

    Quote:
    Have you considered that maybe he has a medical problem that is causing the bolting? What about things like saddle fit? Have you tried other training things like learning a proper one rein stop, or pulley rein, or taking his bolt away from him by making it your idea, or heck, attending bombproofing clinics?
    The problem is not "he has all these problems and they are SO BAD RIGHT NOW." Like I've mentioned, he's been in training to work on these things. He's a LOT better than he used to be. Yes, he's very good with a one-rein stop as well as a pulley rein. Yes, we've done a TON of desensitization. The point is not HE'S SO BAD RIGHT NOW but rather "he has been bad in the past, I don't feel comfortable saying he's cured even if he's better than he used to be, what's the best way to deal with that?" If you believe that training will help, I'd like you to believe that training IS helping already.

    Saddle fit has been addressed. I haven't had the vet out for the bolting because it's always been pretty clear situations of fear for him.

    I apologize for sounding irritated. I am trying to balance the best interests of both my horse and myself, but please know that I will never sacrifice his well-being for my own.
         
        06-22-2014, 05:43 PM
      #24
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by phoquess    
    I would really appreciate if people would read the thread, and my responses, before offering advice.

    As I've stated, I'm not putting my horse down.



    Remember this bit in the OP?
    "And I won't sell him without disclosing his vices, because I think that's unethical and dangerous."



    The problem is not "he has all these problems and they are SO BAD RIGHT NOW." Like I've mentioned, he's been in training to work on these things. He's a LOT better than he used to be. Yes, he's very good with a one-rein stop as well as a pulley rein. Yes, we've done a TON of desensitization. The point is not HE'S SO BAD RIGHT NOW but rather "he has been bad in the past, I don't feel comfortable saying he's cured even if he's better than he used to be, what's the best way to deal with that?" If you believe that training will help, I'd like you to believe that training IS helping already.

    Saddle fit has been addressed. I haven't had the vet out for the bolting because it's always been pretty clear situations of fear for him.

    I apologize for sounding irritated. I am trying to balance the best interests of both my horse and myself, but please know that I will never sacrifice his well-being for my own.
    With everything that's been said and the fact that this horse has some very serious vices (even tho he has gotten better, the problems are still there). If you can't stomach letting him go from 1-2k or even less, then plan on keeping him.

    Like I said there is a market for problem horses, but not for anything relatively close to what you're wanting out of him. Like some people have mentioned you can get well train horses for 3-4k these days.
    smrobs and Chasin Ponies like this.
         
        06-22-2014, 06:12 PM
      #25
    Yearling
    BUT they are still there...
    Its awesome that training is working but at the moment he still needs more training. He's not worth the asking price now matter how you word it. Since you're insistent then continue training until he is completely rid of these problems and try selling him again. We all sympathize with you and we're sorry your getting the bad end of the deal but it is what it is. You eat the loss or keep training. Sorry those are your only options.
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    Cherie and bkylem like this.
         
        06-22-2014, 06:26 PM
      #26
    Foal
    1-2k less is doable. 4k less is not.

    And for the person who pointed out that 4.5k was reasonable for a horse with show mileage and potential to go further— last week he won HA hunter pleasure amateur and came 3rd in the open championship class, with a junior rider who's only ridden him a handful of times. He has a LOT of potential to go farther. The only reason he hasn't is because I wasn't interested in doing breed shows as my "thing." (That would be why "taking him to shows" is part of my marketing strategy.) The reason I've been starting at 4.5k is so I have room to drop a bit and negotiate when I discuss his vices with prospective buyers.
         
        06-22-2014, 07:15 PM
      #27
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by phoquess    
    1-2k less is doable. 4k less is not.

    And for the person who pointed out that 4.5k was reasonable for a horse with show mileage and potential to go furtheró last week he won HA hunter pleasure amateur and came 3rd in the open championship class, with a junior rider who's only ridden him a handful of times. He has a LOT of potential to go farther. The only reason he hasn't is because I wasn't interested in doing breed shows as my "thing." (That would be why "taking him to shows" is part of my marketing strategy.) The reason I've been starting at 4.5k is so I have room to drop a bit and negotiate when I discuss his vices with prospective buyers.
    For a horse with no vices. It's great he's doing so well. However, at the end of the day he still has those problems, no matter how much better he has gotten. They are still there
         
        06-22-2014, 07:30 PM
      #28
    Super Moderator
    I'm confused with your reply to my post - I did see where you said it would be unethical to not disclose his problems - since they are still there close to the surface and could erupt if someone pushed him into it again he isn't 'cured'
    Then you ask if there is any other way you could market him to get the higher price - but really the only way you could do anything different as far as marketing goes is to not say anything about his history - and that IMO would be wrong
    I see only two options -
    Keep on working with him until he's 100% dealing with all the things that send him over the edge and then ask the higher price for him
    Sell him with all his faults declared for less money and hope he goes to a genuine home and not someone that will immediately sell him on for 'meat money' if its more than his value as a riding horse because once he's gone from you you have no control over what happens to him.
    If he has so much potential then he might be worth hanging on to for a while longer
         
        06-22-2014, 07:59 PM
      #29
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by phoquess    
    I would really appreciate if people would read the thread, and my responses, before offering advice.

    As I've stated, I'm not putting my horse down.

    The problem is not "he has all these problems and they are SO BAD RIGHT NOW." Like I've mentioned, he's been in training to work on these things. He's a LOT better than he used to be. Yes, he's very good with a one-rein stop as well as a pulley rein. Yes, we've done a TON of desensitization. The point is not HE'S SO BAD RIGHT NOW but rather "he has been bad in the past, I don't feel comfortable saying he's cured even if he's better than he used to be, what's the best way to deal with that?" If you believe that training will help, I'd like you to believe that training IS helping already.

    Saddle fit has been addressed. I haven't had the vet out for the bolting because it's always been pretty clear situations of fear for him.

    I apologize for sounding irritated. I am trying to balance the best interests of both my horse and myself, but please know that I will never sacrifice his well-being for my own.

    I didn't see anyone mentioning for you to put your horse down.

    I do believe that training MAY help - sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. It may be helping now, in this case - but the fact is, even with training, he still has the problems. Whether or not the training is working for him, I really can't tell you.

    Pain can feel like fear. My horse had problems with ulcers a few months ago and I genuinely thought it was a problem with spooking and fear. It turned out that not only pain, but the anticipation of pain, was making him anxious and fearful - which led to a LOT more spooking and fussiness than was normal for him. He wasn't in constant pain, only in specific circumstances.

    Since you can afford to show him and keep him in training, I would forget about selling him for now and just keep working with him. Realistically, I don't see how you would get the $4.5k you'd like to get for him as he is. Perhaps in a few more months with lots of consistent riding and training you can get more progress out of him.
    smrobs likes this.
         
        06-22-2014, 08:12 PM
      #30
    sea
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by phoquess    
    And for the person who pointed out that 4.5k was reasonable for a horse with show mileage and potential to go furtheró last week he won HA hunter pleasure amateur and came 3rd in the open championship class, with a junior rider who's only ridden him a handful of times. He has a LOT of potential to go farther.
    Yeeeah, 4.5k for a horse with 0 vices.

    I agree with Jaydee, either you're going to have to work with him until he's "cured" (using that term very loosely) or you'll have to eat the loss. The proof is in the pudding, isn't it? You came to the forum asking advice because you've had no interested buyers, did you not? Like I said, you can price this horse for that much all day just because that's what YOU paid not knowing how dangerous he was, but it doesn't mean you are entitled to a buyer. If you can afford a 1-2k loss, then why not price him accordingly and see if that gets any response?
    bkylem likes this.
         

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