Hunter in Sale Video Seems "off" to Me-Anyone Else? - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 22 Old 01-29-2013, 07:35 PM
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OOOHHHH he's with a lot of potential. Are you looking for a hunter??
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post #12 of 22 Old 01-29-2013, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by maura View Post
I disagree about the rider.

I see a very skilled professional that is trying to show a green prospect in the best light for a sale video.

Everything that rider does has a reason - the exaggerating posting at the trot is to encourage suspension and using the back, the exaggerating bend to new bend to ensure the horse gets a clear signal for the change. Not my choice of technique, but pretty common in the hunter world. The rider will back down on the aids as the horse gains confidence and will eventually have an auto change, where a change in direction will cue the change.

I also like how the rider deals quickly and calmly with the horse coming above the bit - a no fuss, prompt correction with an immediate softening as a reward.

It may well be that this horse is at this professional's barn to be RE-trained, and that this rider isn't responsible for the horse's way of going.

If this horse came into my barn, I would first get him some chiro and masage, and do lots of hacking out to rediscover his forward and get him working more freely. If and when I worked in the ring, I'd be on loose rein or working on long and low. I wouldn't pick up contact until I had freely forward again, and I'd be prepared for him regress to chambon head when I did.

However, my approach to training wouldn't make for a good sale video.

Again, I think the video is of a really good professional showing the horse as well as he is able at this stage of training.

I'm seeing excess movement in the legs. at 3.53 mark (think thats the stop) the head swinging....hands cause that, see sawing?. seriously, wouldn't put who ever that is on any horse I'm filming to sell. did the horse or the owner no favors there.
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post #13 of 22 Old 01-30-2013, 12:50 AM
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REALLY like the horse... Really! Don't have a clue about the rider; clever professional or... Anyway, loved the horse.
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post #14 of 22 Old 01-30-2013, 06:17 AM Thread Starter
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Okay...many comments were so very helpful, and so very much appreciated!

Let me first reply to franknbeans, by stating definitively the reason I posted this video was by no means or intent to be disrespectful, nor was it to "mock" the facilty owner/rider, or horse in ANY manner! As well, apparently, FnB does not consider me worthy of such a loftymount. That is certainly her prerogative.

Regarding the actual information provided~I could not appreciate more the depth and breadth of information received! Maura, your critique was beyond excellent! Everyone, actually, gave me at least one important point to consider both when re-viewing this particular sale video, as well as in the future, when I will be looking at probably hundreds of potential videos and "live ride" horses, while trying to suss out precisely what I am seeing before me.

Whether it is (at any point) an unsound horse I am looking at, a stiff horse, or one which has had less than optimal training for the activity it is participating in...these are all things that I must "train" my eye to understand better somehow, and you all have provided me with a teriffic starting point on how to view such aspects.

My trainer will certainly be involved in the purchase process (I am faaar too inexperienced in conformation and putting the entire picture of what I am seeing together to make such an important choice independently), once we get that far. She definitely will recommend potential purchases; but while searching on my own, I want to be able to even somewhat reliably rule in or out the "favorites" to show her.

Some of Maura's comments, and some by Faye as well, provided me with the ability to "see" in terms of "what was (most-likely) actually happening within the horse, as well as the rider. Especially, that movement which this gelding made when jumping (and I had concluded was possibly stiffness)...and then Maura described differently--more thoroughly--rather. So much of what was said was just really helpful to me, as I now have a starting point when researching potential issues to look for when I get even deeper into my new horse search.

My trainer feels that to meet my needs regarding what I am looking to do, I should start looking for a hunter/trail-type, possibly even light endurance-capable horse. As I understand it, her desire for me is to search in each category separately, and then look for a horse that has some cross-over areas, if that makes sense?

Thus, I am looking, at present, at everything out there. To me, that means ignore price. Just learn how to see the good and bad points in every class of horse--the amazing, the so-so, and the terrible. To learn all I can about each kind of horse, what makes one so different from the other in terms of price and ability (and where these factors meet) and then move from there...

Thank you to those who didn't feel I was doing something wrong by asking general, non-insulting questions about this horse (advertised FOR viewing on You Tube, correct?). I apologize for coming off snarky toward fnb, and likely being too thin skinned about this, but the last thing I expected after clearly expressing a GREAT liking for this horse, was to be told not only that I should "be careful" with looking for information about for sale ads unless I am intending to showing up later that day, essentially, and somehow make an offer on the horse. On top of that, to then be told in basic plain language that I am not good enough for this horse. Wow, I was always taught it was rude to make an "assessment" like that about someone's financial means without knowing such for certain...Just kinda stung; leaving it alone now...)

"I'm too busy working on my own grass to notice if yours is greener"
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post #15 of 22 Old 01-30-2013, 07:30 AM
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Glad you found the discussion on this thread helpful.

Let me give you some background on FNB's concerns. We've had some nasty incidents on this board of people posting videos not their own (usually of a rival or "frenemy") and inviting and egging on critique as a form of cyber bullying.

Some attempts have been obvious, some very subtle.

So posting someone else's YouTube video for critique will always draw some concern.

In the last conversation I had with the mod staff and the admin of this board, however, if the video could reasonably be expected to be public, such as a sale video or something on a public channel and the purpose of the critique was educational, not to bash or bully someone, then it was okay. Also, there was more leeway in critiquing a professional or a public figure than there would be with a candid video of an unsuspecting amateur.

In short, I think this thread is fine, and I don't think Gavin is worried about what anyone here thinks of this horse or his riding. But FNBs concern about posting video for critique is well founded, and based on some bad past history.

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post #16 of 22 Old 01-30-2013, 07:40 AM
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Well said, Maura-had the OP posted as a "possible buy" critique it would be a different situation. However, it was posted as a "just cruising the net" type......

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post #17 of 22 Old 01-30-2013, 07:52 AM
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Yup, I hear you.

However, (and I apologize, this was not a public conversation) I did have a convo with the mod staff about posting videos or photos of pros and public figures for the purposes of education was okay. The subject came up because a former member was baiting me, asking me to critique photo and video, and I refused, because I didn't know the origins or circumstances of the material.

I also think if you weren't witness to the cyberbullying incidents, as you and I were, that our elevated level of concern may seem odd.
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post #18 of 22 Old 01-30-2013, 11:23 AM Thread Starter
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I am the sort of person who is very appreciative of being told if I have unintentionally broken a rule, or even done something questionable, especially in a situation where HF is concerned, as I definitely respect this site and wishes of the mods accordingly.

Thus, I certainly appreciate you sharing with me the recent experience here related to problematic posts. I can absolutely appreciate one responding cautiously, given what had occurred...bottom line, however, despite whatever recently took place, the only person who was remotely disrespectful or intimated I was somehow not capable of purchasing/owning a horse of this caliber (or something similar), was fnb. Regardless of whether or not she feels this statement which she made: "unless it is a horse you are looking to buy, which I doubt." is rude, I strongly believe it is startlingly so and similarly uncalled for.

Strangely, you (Maura) were the only one (between the two of you) who even took the time to explain the other situation to me, as well as to treat me with enough respect to actually answer my questions...

It's a moot point now, and if fnb feels the comment she made is not condescending, well, that's her prerogative. I feel otherwise. Nonetheless, it's done with now, and I'm certainly still extremely appreciative of the insights I received from you and everyone else, as you were all so polite and helpful, and again, gave me teriffic advice. :0)

Thanks again for your time, Maura and everyone else who put in your insights! Learning is still what it's all about for me!!
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post #19 of 22 Old 01-30-2013, 11:36 AM
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Nothing to say about the horse (maura covered it), but I will say I don't know where this awful rider faye is talking about is in the video?? Maybe we are watching different videos??
Typical hunter trainer is what I see. Yes a lot of the work is not correct from a technical dressage standpoint but that guy has that horse up and in between his aids and under his seat like a pocket square. Mostly just green horse stuff and I do agree with maura probably lots of retraining from a head setter. Which is a lot harder than it might appear, contrary to the beliefs of whatever dressage book you read. It's not all fluffy pretty pony and still hands and rainbow farts with a few demi-arrets thrown in.
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post #20 of 22 Old 01-30-2013, 11:43 AM
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I should clarify what I was saying as well.

I don't see a rider who doesn't know what he is doing. I also don't see a rider who is sloppy and all over the place.

I DO see a rider who looks to be almost purposly throwing himself at the horse over the jumps. And I see a rider who is purposly fiddling while riding. What I see is a talented HUNTER rider who is showing that the horse is quiet, a saint and very honest despite being green.
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