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charging jumps?????....HELP!!!!!!

This is a discussion on charging jumps?????....HELP!!!!!! within the Jumping forums, part of the English Riding category

     
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        04-06-2009, 12:10 PM
      #31
    Green Broke
    Like I said, rushing to the fence is always an anxiety issue. What are some reasons that cause anxiety?

    1. They aren't balanced through the corner (they don't like feeling like they're going to fall down)
    2. They aren't balanced to the fence
    3. Getting to the right distance to the fence
    4. Getting hurt over the fence (hit in the mouth, back, etc)
    5. What to do with his legs (meaning: doesn't really know how to jump)
    6. Too slow through the corner and they feel like they can't get over the fence at that pace
    7. Rider is fearful and causes the horse to be fearful
    8. Horse is afraid of the jump itself (too many reasons to list)
    9. It's too high of a jump then what they're physically prepared for
    10. It's too high of a jump then what they're mentally prepared for

    I could go on and on and on but I'll start with those. My guess is that your horse is not prepared to be jumping anything higher then 2 ft max right now. I cannot stress it enough, HEIGHT DOES NOT MATTER. It is QUALITY. The horse I've been working with that used to charge fences is incredibly scopey. My hope is for him to be my 3"6 horse, possibly 4" unless I sell him. I'm pretty certain I could hop him over a few 3" jumps now without it being an issue, but I won't. I'm going to take my time and let him get very very comfortable at 2'3-2'6, probably for the rest of the year before I start to raise the fences. This is a crucial time in his training for him to learn to use his body well and gain confidence. 6 inches doesnt seem like a lot but there is a TREMENDOUS difference between jumping 2'6 and 3'. Lots of people can jump 2'6, even if maybe they shouldn't be. No one should be jumping 3' unless they are absolutely prepared to. There is also a tremendous difference between jumping 3' and 3'3 and by the time you are doing 3'6 you should be a very accomplished rider. You can't be inaccurate, you can't be unbalanced or your will either 1. Get hurt 2. Hurt your horse 3. Completely screw up your horse. The fact that you have been jumping your horse 3'9 terrifies me and it is no surprise that your horse is charging fences. I'm sorry if that is harsh but I'd love to get my point across that you have got to lower the fences and work on the basics!

    I was very happy to hear that you are open to trying a little dressage work to see if it helps and that it does seem to be slowing him down. Remember too that just because he is nice and slow at 2" does not mean you should raise the fences the next day. Like I said, I plan on keeping my horse at the 2"6 mark for pretty much the rest of the year. My desire to have my horse jump well and comfortably is much more important to me then my desire to jump big.

    And just to add... I don't consider 2nd level to be impressive or contain "the most amazing dressage things". Yes, I am impressed by people who do it well but a horse that jumps 3'6 should at least be schooling 2nd level if not higher.
         
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        04-06-2009, 01:03 PM
      #32
    Foal
    I quite like this site for useful and straight forward tips... I've highlighted the jumping section, but other articles are equally as useful (especially the training pyramid).
    The Art of Classical Riding--Jumping Problems Solved

    It obvious is should not replace an instructor, but may give you some idea on what you need to achieve etc.
         
        04-06-2009, 01:59 PM
      #33
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by upnover    
    Like I said, rushing to the fence is always an anxiety issue. What are some reasons that cause anxiety?

    1. They aren't balanced through the corner (they don't like feeling like they're going to fall down)
    2. They aren't balanced to the fence
    3. Getting to the right distance to the fence
    4. Getting hurt over the fence (hit in the mouth, back, etc)
    5. What to do with his legs (meaning: doesn't really know how to jump)
    6. Too slow through the corner and they feel like they can't get over the fence at that pace
    7. Rider is fearful and causes the horse to be fearful
    8. Horse is afraid of the jump itself (too many reasons to list)
    9. It's too high of a jump then what they're physically prepared for
    10. It's too high of a jump then what they're mentally prepared for

    I could go on and on and on but I'll start with those. My guess is that your horse is not prepared to be jumping anything higher then 2 ft max right now. I cannot stress it enough, HEIGHT DOES NOT MATTER. It is QUALITY. The horse I've been working with that used to charge fences is incredibly scopey. My hope is for him to be my 3"6 horse, possibly 4" unless I sell him. I'm pretty certain I could hop him over a few 3" jumps now without it being an issue, but I won't. I'm going to take my time and let him get very very comfortable at 2'3-2'6, probably for the rest of the year before I start to raise the fences. This is a crucial time in his training for him to learn to use his body well and gain confidence. 6 inches doesnt seem like a lot but there is a TREMENDOUS difference between jumping 2'6 and 3'. Lots of people can jump 2'6, even if maybe they shouldn't be. No one should be jumping 3' unless they are absolutely prepared to. There is also a tremendous difference between jumping 3' and 3'3 and by the time you are doing 3'6 you should be a very accomplished rider. You can't be inaccurate, you can't be unbalanced or your will either 1. Get hurt 2. Hurt your horse 3. Completely screw up your horse. The fact that you have been jumping your horse 3'9 terrifies me and it is no surprise that your horse is charging fences. I'm sorry if that is harsh but I'd love to get my point across that you have got to lower the fences and work on the basics!

    I was very happy to hear that you are open to trying a little dressage work to see if it helps and that it does seem to be slowing him down. Remember too that just because he is nice and slow at 2" does not mean you should raise the fences the next day. Like I said, I plan on keeping my horse at the 2"6 mark for pretty much the rest of the year. My desire to have my horse jump well and comfortably is much more important to me then my desire to jump big.

    And just to add... I don't consider 2nd level to be impressive or contain "the most amazing dressage things". Yes, I am impressed by people who do it well but a horse that jumps 3'6 should at least be schooling 2nd level if not higher.
    Upnover, I love your posts, especially this one.

    I just wanted to add to the bolded section, they should be schooling it REGULARLY - dressage is NOT like riding a bike; they won't know it forever.

    I do agree with onetoomany as well.
         
        04-06-2009, 03:52 PM
      #34
    Yearling
    Does he go too fast when your doing flat, or is it only jumping?
         
        04-07-2009, 12:37 AM
      #35
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JustDressageIt    
    Upnover, I love your posts, especially this one.

    I just wanted to add to the bolded section, they should be schooling it REGULARLY - dressage is NOT like riding a bike; they won't know it forever.

    I do agree with onetoomany as well.

    Why thank you! I do have to say, we are usually on the same page about things! Thanks for adding that last bit. Couldn't agree more, dressage is something that must be school regularly! Just because a horse could do a great shoulder-in 5 years ago doesn't mean he's balanced and fit today.
         
        04-07-2009, 12:33 PM
      #36
    Trained
    I've said it in other posts, and even in this one -

    If GP Jumpers school Dressage DAILY and jump only once a week - there is obviously strong theory behind this.

    I find it funny how people at low levels try to mimic upper level riders.

    "Ohhh, he's in a GP, so I must get one too!"
    "Oooh he's in the jointed irons, I have to get them too!"
    "OH he's in a running martingale, that makes it ok or me to be in one too!"

    Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc

    But they just don't stop and look at the time and effort that these riders/training put into their horses daily - dressage. For any rider to be successful at the sport they do, they have to put the trainng in thier horses first and foremost.

    No one stops and looks at the training put into those horses.

    All they see is jumping - jumping, jumping, jumping. So that is all that they want to do - mimic. It makes me so frustrated and I want to scream and pull out my hair whenever I see coaches at lower levels, not implementing the fundamentals with their students, so that they can be successfull when jumping!!!!

    ARGH!!! Many coaches of today, just want to keep their student count up and wil give them what they want so that they can keep their money flow coming in. So - they don't do the importancies on the flat and teach how important dresage is....they just allow them to go over fences, just to keep them happy.

    I hate it, hate it, hate it, hate it!

    Any coach, who does not teach how important dressage is first, who does not impliment strong basics in dressage - is not worth my time, my money, my effort.

    So to those who wanna copy upper level riders - try to start copying their training first.
         
        04-07-2009, 02:08 PM
      #37
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by onetoomany    
    I believe that Morganshow has been told several times that Clippy is nowhere near the levels she believes him to be trained. Unfortunately none of it has sunk in. Sorry, but I had to say it and Morganshow, please go watch a video of a 2nd level dressage horse and than compare it to Clippy. We can't learn from our faults if we don't admit that we have them.

    I am also curious as where you got the experience to think you are ready to be jumping that high. You can seriously be impairing your horse's ability over jumps, which can be extremely dangerous. Especially on a horse that probably doesn't know how to properly handle his body in the first place. If you are interested in jumping I would suggest finding a qualified trainer and instructor in your area that can begin to point you in the correct direction. As many have said just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD.
    I was told he was schooled at 2nd level.
         
        04-07-2009, 02:13 PM
      #38
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by morganshow11    
    I was told he was schooled at 2nd level.
    I think this is similar to what JDI said. Just because you were told your horse schooled at 2nd level once upon a time, does not mean he still does. I think the point they are trying to make is that your horse needs to BE schooling at 2nd level consistantly if you are going to be jumping that high.

    I have avoided this thread more or less because there are people more advanced in Jumping than I am, but my two cents is that they are right. From the videos I have seen (And don't take this personally, I am just trying to help with your problem) Clippy needs a lot of basics. He braces himself, does not carry himself too well, and last I saw you were riding him in a big shank bit because he was too quick (May have been your other horse, correct me if I am wrong).

    The images/video I am talking about is fairly recent, so I doubt he has become more balanced and collected and your hands have softened enough so fast to warrent him jumping so high (Or IMO jumping).

    Get him nice and supple and quiet on the flat. If he -can- school 2nd level, do that the majority of the time. You and your horse will benefit greatly from it.
         
        04-07-2009, 03:53 PM
      #39
    Banned
    I have never rode Clippy in a shank or any of my horses. Just a snaffle.
         
        04-07-2009, 04:26 PM
      #40
    Trained
    Well in that case disregard the statement about the shank bit (Must have come about from the thread about the Mikmar bits. Sorry), and the rest about clippy and your riding still stands.
         

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