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Controversial two-point?

This is a discussion on Controversial two-point? within the Jumping forums, part of the English Riding category
  • English riding two point
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    07-10-2009, 03:55 PM
  #11
Green Broke
Here's something to remember, a lot of pictures you see of people are not correct jumping positions! Yes, even pros, grand prix jumpers, students of great teachers. Jumping is hard and it takes a while to be completely secure and correct over the fence. And even those who have good positions can develop bad habits. Laying down on your horse's neck, or "ducking", is NOT correct nor ideal, but it is a very common bad habit so you see a lot of people doing it. You need to free up your horse's front end/neck and allow your horse to jump. It inhibits their ability to balance or use their body well. I would have to disagree with MyBeau. It's not how hunters are supposed to be and judges don't reward you for it (they may give out blue ribbons to riders who have a better round then the others despite the ducking though)

If you really want to know more about jumping positions I would highly recommend picking up a few copies of Practical Horseman magazine. There is a monthly article called "Jumping Clinic" where George Morris evaluates 3 riders positions, explaining what is wrong, what is ideal, and often goes into explanation of why. Very informative!
     
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    07-10-2009, 04:41 PM
  #12
Weanling
Thanks for the article, advice, and help everybody!:)

I have noticed something else:


Riders that get soooo high their calves fly back. Even the grand pix jumpers do it! More comments welcome!:)
     
    07-10-2009, 05:43 PM
  #13
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by upnover    
I would have to disagree with MyBeau. It's not how hunters are supposed to be and judges don't reward you for it (they may give out blue ribbons to riders who have a better round then the others despite the ducking though)

If you really want to know more about jumping positions I would highly recommend picking up a few copies of Practical Horseman magazine. There is a monthly article called "Jumping Clinic" where George Morris evaluates 3 riders positions, explaining what is wrong, what is ideal, and often goes into explanation of why. Very informative!
I do agree that not all judges reward it, but it definitely does happen. I think it's not as prevalent as it was a few years back (i'm not a hunter, so i'm not positive), but for a while that was pretty much the norm. Atleast around - I could see the hunter rounds while I was waiting at the jumper ring.

It's kind of like the WP horses that go around soooo slow and un-naturally they look lame. Judges awarded them with ribbons for a long time, the AQHA is finally stepping in and not placing the horses that move like that.

And from the looks of that pic (rust breeches and helmet chin strap) it looks a little older, so maybe it's from when the "lay on your horse's neck" was in?

The GM Jumping Clinic is an excellent recommendation to the OP!
     
    07-10-2009, 05:52 PM
  #14
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveTheSaddlebreds    
lol the horse looks pretty though!
He's is gorgeous! I'm a HUGE fan! He's a dressage stallion, Furst Impression. He has Florestan l, Donnerhall, Rubinstein, Weltmeyer and Argantan bloodlines... and he just might make it as a hunter!

Here he is doing his thing:

That is his 4 year old FEI qualifier :]
     
    07-10-2009, 06:05 PM
  #15
Started
I don't think lying across the neck should ever be acceptable, especially in equitation classes, but that's what it's come to nowadays. I also don't think that very many judges approve of it, but just about everyone does it. Even though it can weight the horse down and inhibit his movement, but it seems like everyone is overlooking that detail. One more reason why Beezie Madden rocks.
     
    07-10-2009, 08:54 PM
  #16
Trained
If you read the artice I posted by George Morris in the Jumping Section - titled "Form Over Fences" you will see exactly what GM thinks about riders who lay on their horses necks.

I think that when riders lay on their horses necks, they are posing and perching - at that point, the rider has lost their functionallity.

The purpose of the rider is to get their horse to the base of the fence functionally, and then get out of their horses way to do their job. How is that happening, when the rider throws all their weight onto their horses forehands?
     
    07-11-2009, 01:01 AM
  #17
Weanling
Interesting artical whoever posted the one on the overuse of the crest release (sorry forgot to get the posters name)...

TBH I didnt think either of the possies on the original poster were that great - I thought the second was too high out of the saddle and the first was too over the horses neck... but in saying that neither alarmed me either as such...

Just a question on your hunter classes - does the riders form actually count ? As the riders form only count in the equitation classes for us (I mean obviously if the form effects the horses jumping style then that would matter)

Re the comment with the riders calves flying back is usually that they are gripping with their knees.... (Causing like a pivoting effect)
     
    07-11-2009, 09:14 AM
  #18
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by jody111    

Just a question on your hunter classes - does the riders form actually count ? As the riders form only count in the equitation classes for us (I mean obviously if the form effects the horses jumping style then that would matter)
In a hunter competetion, the judge is looking for finesse. It has nothing to do with time. I think the horse is judged about 50% and the rider is judged 50%. But really, they are judged how they work together.

MIEventer, I did read your article. I just want even more info. :) Thanks everyone.
     
    07-11-2009, 10:46 AM
  #19
Started
Really? I thought hunter was pretty much all on the horse? Obviously the judge will be biased by a good/bad rider, but it's still on the horse.
     
    07-11-2009, 01:22 PM
  #20
Started
I agree with 17rodents.
It's mainly the horse being judged in hunter classes, everything the rider does should make the horse look good. Check out the jumping picture of Furst Impression I posted, if that had been equitation, the judge would've probably had a heart attack. But it's hunters and hey, the horse looks fantastic!
     

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