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Had to post for MIEventer...

5K views 34 replies 13 participants last post by  lovemyponies 
#1 ·
I saw this in a magazine distributed for free at my feed store. This picture announces that this woman has just achieved Level III hunt seat certification...the first in Texas. She also is the President of a Hunter/Jumper association. She is available for lessons.

Geez...what kind of form is that...and with a standing martingale. I guess all certification means these days is that you had enough time and money to take the test.:?
 

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#4 ·
First of all, I really want to commend you for going out and exploring the world of form over fences and really taking the time out to educate yourself and your eye on this matter.

I really admire that! And good for you! It is entirely up to us to educate ourselves on this matter, so bravo!

On that note, she really isn't that bad. Her leg is solid at the girth and her heels are down. She has a nice angle in her knees. Although she is jumping ahead - if we were to turn the picture sideways, I guarantee that her seat is much to far out of her tack and her crotch is over the pommel of her saddle.

She is attempting an automatic release, which is great -but failed due to her lurching herself out of her tack. And yes, her hip angle is muchly exaggerated -but again, that is due to her trying to jump the fence for her horse, instead of allowing her horse to do that for her.

Now on that note, when I look for a coach, I don't look to see what degree they have under their belt with instruction - lets face it, there are many people out there with coaching tickets, who cannot coach worth a lick of salt.

I personally, look at their years of experience, how well they ride, their students ride and what accomplishments they have. How well do they focus on their students well being.

Anyways, I am proud of you guys for really making the effort to educate yourself - good for you!

Take this picture here, and compare it to the picture in the thread "Jumping Form" - and see what simularities you catch or what differences you see.

This rider here, her form isn't "great" but it isn't bad either.
 
#7 ·
Whats a level III hunt seat certification?? Your have to excuse me i'm a brit!! She doesn't look that bad, the picture that comes up every time I post i'm laying on Jacks neck!! And I have a BHS stage 3 exam!! But then I don't claim to be brilliant!! She does look very small tho I thought she might be a child!! and her pony looks no bigger than 13.2!!
 
#10 ·
Whats a level III hunt seat certification??
I had to google it...think this is what its talking about...

Level III - Must show lesson relating flat work to jumping, suitable for riders who are capable of jumping 3'-3'6". (Note: It is not required that riders actually jump 3' to 3'6" in this lesson)
ARIA: Riding Instructor Certification: Teaching Specialties

A True/False, multiple choice written exam to become "certified"...not a riding test.:?

To me it doesn't look like she is jumping 3'6...so how could she teach it? I don't know. After looking at her leg again...I guess you could call it solid...but I still think she looks like her feet are sprawled and she is doing the "neck humper" pose.
 
#9 ·
its not photoshopped, its just a bad picture because its a picture of a picture, the fact that the magazine that it came out of is newspaper like doesn't help.
A photo looses some oomph when there is a picture taken of it.
 
#11 ·
Is there riding at a Test Center?
No. It is your teaching ability and knowledge which are being evaluated.
So to be certified...all you have to do is live by the mantra...do what I say not what I do.:lol: You don't actually have to be a good rider to teach good riding...I think there's something wrong with that.

Maybe Im just being grouchy.:lol:
 
#12 ·
I see a rider whose fallen on her horses neck and is using her hands as a means to support her body. She has fallen way too far forward, especially judging that this jump isn't that high. He horse seems to be jumping flat, as a result.

I don't see much of an automatic release here, I see more of a crest release.
I'd always known an automatic release to be that of the type of release show jumpers use, where your arms stay more in line with the line to the bit, and are more placed along the sides of the horses neck.
Not on their crest for support.

Just my two cents. That is what I see. She does have nice foundation with her legs, although I'm afraid she's not using them like she should be. She is much too forward, and off balanced.
 
#13 ·
A True/False, multiple choice written exam to become "certified"...not a riding test.:?

To me it doesn't look like she is jumping 3'6...so how could she teach it? I don't know. After looking at her leg again...I guess you could call it solid...but I still think she looks like her feet are sprawled and she is doing the "neck humper" pose.[/quote]

Thats really bizare in the UK to become a qualified teacher there are 4 parts for the lowest level instructor (me) you do you stage 1,2, and 3 riding and care and your PTT (preliminary teaching exam) then 350 hours teaching at a BHS approved yard in your stage 3 riding you ride 2 horses on the flat schooling to improve their way of going, 1 horse showjumping jump a grid 1st then over a course of showjumps at 1.00 metre then you ride another horse x~country which varies in height but where I took it was 90cm, now as I said I don't think i'm very good :oops: which comes from having 2 sisters that compeate FEI level I find I put alot of pressure on myself to improve and become a better rider..
 
#16 ·
A True/False, multiple choice written exam to become "certified"...not a riding test.:?

To me it doesn't look like she is jumping 3'6...so how could she teach it? I don't know. After looking at her leg again...I guess you could call it solid...but I still think she looks like her feet are sprawled and she is doing the "neck humper" pose.
Thats really bizare in the UK to become a qualified teacher there are 4 parts for the lowest level instructor (me) you do you stage 1,2, and 3 riding and care and your PTT (preliminary teaching exam) then 350 hours teaching at a BHS approved yard in your stage 3 riding you ride 2 horses on the flat schooling to improve their way of going, 1 horse showjumping jump a grid 1st then over a course of showjumps at 1.00 metre then you ride another horse x~country which varies in height but where I took it was 90cm, now as I said I don't think i'm very good :oops: which comes from having 2 sisters that compeate FEI level I find I put alot of pressure on myself to improve and become a better rider..[/quote]
Wow! Who are your sisiters?
 
#14 ·
Being a good rider and being a good instructor are not directly related.

Our NSW mounted games coach has coached the NSW junior MG team to wins the entire time he has been coaching. BUT he only started riding Mounted Games about a year ago and is only just beggining to be any good!

A brilliant rider may be horrible at teaching. And a crappy rider may be a fantastic teacher. Seeing faults and creating imrpovement in others is totally different than doing it for yourself.
 
#15 ·
First of all, I've heard from so many trainers, barn owners, etc etc that ARIA and like organizations are nothing but a waste of money because you basically just pay to have a certificate. 1) you don't have to be that good to be approved. 2) they don't do anything to improve the quality of instruction. It's basically, a place to pay for a piece of paper. In fact, I've been to their website and there is ONE trainer in my entire state that's "Certified". And she's a joke. None of the incredible, nationally known, even grand prix level (riding AND teaching at grand prix level) trainers are on the list.

No, her form isn't perfect. But it isn't horrible and it's functional. Just because you're a trainer doesn't meant that 100% of all of your jumps are perfectly done. I'm often complimented on my form over fences but kids at the barn have taken shots of me that I'm not proud of! Plus it's hard as a trainer to continue to have impeccable equitation. You'd be surprised at how easy it is to pick up a few sloppy habits here and there without eyes on the ground. I know very very few trainers who have the luxury of someone watch and coach them. Not saying it's ok to be sloppy, but still.

Plus, just because she's not jumping 3"6 in this picture doesn't mean she can't do it or teach it. i can jump 3"6 but the majority of the pictures of me jumping are at shows where I'm competing at 2"3 or 2"6. 95% of what I jump are either ponies or green horses and I don't have a lot of pictures of me jumping anything else. When you're a trainer you don't jump for yourself anymore, you jump what's best for the horse you're on and sometimes that's a lot lower what your capabilities.

George Morris says that you should never teach more then what you've done yourself. Either do yourself now, or HAVE DONE in the past. I personally think it would be very difficult to teach if I didn't ride regularly. But I know an older trainer who basically runs the rated show scene in her part of the state, who's well into her 60's, walks with a limp and doesn't ride anymore. Her clients are EXTREMELY educated, functional and beautiful riders. If I was looking for a trainer I'd go to her in a heartbeat. I have a friend who starting at 4 y/o was showing (and winning) and Pony Finals, Devon, Indoors, etc etc. At 8, people were paying her to break ponies for them. By high school she was doing the Level 5 and 6 Jumpers (which is just under grand prix). She is an incredible rider. She has an impeccable eye for a distance. She can get a horse to do anything happily. But she is a terrible trainer. She has a lot of knowledge but can't teach it well and absolutely no eye for a rider! She can't look at a rider and tell what's really going on and how to fix it. It's weird. Her students don't ride well. I wouldn't go to her to teach me.

anyways, i could go on and on. i guess i have a lot of opinions about this, haha, but i'll stop now!
 
#17 ·
I sort of feel sorry for her getting critiqued on here w/o her being the one posting. There are so many possibilites. First off the standing martingale is very loose and not impeding the horse's ability to jump. Her basic position isn't bad and perhaps she had one bad jump and someone snapped the moment. Also its very true great teachers may not be as good as riders and vice versa. Looks like she is very short and that particular shot she is jumping a pony. Its interesting for discussion but w/o the person in the photo explaining and asking for critique I withhold judgement. :)
 
#20 ·
well its an interesting subject but at the same time I think even though its in a magazine its not really a complete critique w/o the person in question being able to give some insight to the actual moment the pic was shot. Just my opinion. Actually if you go with the idea that it was in a magazine then you could also say that anything posted on youtube made public is also game for critique. A little different but not a lot. She may not have a perfect position but be a great instructor as has been noted on here. For all we know that is an old photo tht someone found in a magazine archive and she was not happy with it. Who knows? And how high can she jump? We don't really know. Just my opinion.
 
#21 ·
Couldn't agree with you more lovemyponies! Maybe she is a terrible rider and a terrible trainer... but we aren't going to know that just from that one picture.

And to add, the HJA presidents that i know aren't elected for their riding ability. They're elected for their leadership/organizational skills and capabilities of running a fair and profitable show organization. The president of the organization I'm an officer of isn't even a rider. His daughters showed extensively and he runs a show management company but he is a very very effective leader and thus an excellent president! i would say the best the state has had for many many years.
 
#22 · (Edited)
I think some of you were missing the point of the topic. Have none of you ever read Practical Horsemen or other magazines where people critique photos so that we can learn from it?

And Im sorry but the "maybe the photo was just bad" is a bunch of bologna. All magazines have to check with the person in the photo before publication. Therefore she approved the photo. If the photo is "one bad shot" then she chose it to represent her to the public why?

We are just critiquing the photo and on the side we got skewed on how the certification process seems to be somewhat bogus.

I don't know her life story...Im strictly judging her on the photo that she most likely approved to go in a publicly viewed magazine. And in that photo I thought she had a lousy position.
 
#23 ·
Okay agree to disagree. I understand we post things to critique but I thought you were supposed to only post yourself or someone who gave you permission. Just because it was posted in a publication doesn't mean it was meant to be critiqued on a forum. Just my opinion. I understand posting videos/pics of horses others want to buy, that is different and even with those I think its better to not dissect the person who is riding the horse in the vidoe. (other than saying a stronger rider would more effectively show the horse off type of comment) Its really no big deal. I do think the discussion of the cert process is legit. However if I were this woman and saw a discussion started because of a photo in a local mag and all the unkind things said about me and my ability to teach, etc I would think it would be very upsetting to her. People post things on line and I don't think that makes it fair game to post it on here and critique unless its a for sale ad type of thing. again JMO :))
 
#24 ·
by the way the critiques in Practical Horseman are usually people who sent them in to be critiqued and no one is questioning those people's ability to be a teacher. That is what bothers me, the basic premise of the original post was ' this woman is a certified teacher and look how bad she looks.' very different than discussing a submitted photo for critique
 
#28 ·
MIeventer, totally respect your opinion and agree about it for higher fences, and certainly its best if you don't get used to "using" a martingale as a quick fix. I respect all posters on this thread. I just look out a little for the person getting picked on, just my personality. :)
 
#29 ·
Well, people critique all the time don't they?

You go on Youtube and watch riding video's - you critique. I critique. They are on a public location for all eyes to see.

You open up a Tabloid Magazine, you look at an annorexic star, you critique. Because it is in a public magaine, for all eyes to see.

When we look at someone who is in a leadership roll, we have the right to use our education, eyes and minds to evaluate what we are looking at. And on a forum, we have the right to discuss what we are seeing.

If something is put in a place for all public eyes to see. Any Tom, **** or Hary can see - there is always going to be people critiquing.

We look at pictures of GP jumpers, in magazines and on the telly - we critique.

Anyone who is in the "light" for others to look up to, are in public eye - are left for critiquing.

So I don't feel bad about discussing this person that the OP posted, for us all to discuss what we see. Her picture is in the public eye.
 
#30 ·
I respect your opinion on this but I just thought we were supposed to only post things for critique of ourselves or someone that asked us to. I think its fine to post a video or pictures of a horse that you are looking to buy, (especially if its posted on the web for sale) However I just find the way this was posted a bit rude. I am sorry but its very possible someone who knows this lady or the lady herself or one of her students could see this post and I just find it a bit over the top. Its not like it was posted to give an example of a particular fault. The post is basically saying wow look how poor this rider is and yet she is a certified teacher, then the comments were about how there is no way she could teach someone to jump 3"6, etc.

So agree to disagree. I find MIEeventer and hotreddun both very intelligent and respectful posters. I know there was nothing mean spirited here, just an interesting discussion starter. However though I don't know this person I have to look at it from the stance, what if I did know them? I guess I just got the vibe from the warnings on the critique thread that this type of post is really not what the forum is looking for, just me, just stating my thoughts. Which is what the forum is all about. Okay said my peace on this :)))))
 
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