Jumping Critique - I know it's bad! - Page 3
 
 

       The Horse Forum > Riding Horses > English Riding > Jumping

Jumping Critique - I know it's bad!

This is a discussion on Jumping Critique - I know it's bad! within the Jumping forums, part of the English Riding category

    Like Tree3Likes

     
    LinkBack Thread Tools
        08-30-2013, 09:43 AM
      #21
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tlkng1    
    Another 2 cents here. First, your position HAS vastly improved though it is interesting to read you think it has gotten worse. In the pics for three years ago you had a very textbook beginner with little to no training style..I know..I had that same style. In the second set of pics, as indicated earlier, you were standing in your irons which pushed your upper body forward..not unusual in a green jumping style. This was due to not dropping the weight into your heel and not folding into the 2-point. Your release looks to be more of a hands on neck open release (note straight line from elbow to horse's mouth) vice the crest release I think you were actually trying for. Resting the hands on the neck is a classic out-of-balance or no balance red flag.

    In a crest release you would move your hands up the horse's neck and rest on the top..not down on the side. IN an open release your hands are already in the right position (even if by mistake) but you would not be touching the horse's neck with your hands. In this article, look at George Morris for the proper crest release..not the other rider. The article greatly over exaggerated the issue with a crest release as that particular rider is not in the proper form in any way shape or form of two-point and definitely not a form that is actually taught (if she was taught that position then her trainer needs to be fired).

    Horse jumping release: The crest and automatic release in jumping

    Some ideas..and some of these are repeats :).

    1. Lots and lots of flatwork 2-point. An instructor I had in Louisiana had us do nothing BUT trot two-point for the first 15 mins of each lesson..and yes she timed it. I rode with her for three years; the first 4 months I could barely walk after dismounting. After that time, however, I had the strongest leg imaginable and my two-point was rock solid. The idea, however, is to do a proper two-point. Weight in heels, shoulders back, head up. Fold at the hip..picture in your mind pushing the horse away with your hands (both on the flat and while jumping). This helps you get your hip in the right position and keeps your weight centered.

    2. As for holding two-point to the base, this isn't a bad thing when working on balance. The idea there isn't to just get in to two-point but keeps the inexperienced (or just relearning jumper) into position early to keep from getting left.

    3. Exercises through a small grid (crossrails or tiny verticles set at about high cavaletti height, 12 inches?, holding arms out to the side will help.

    It is not a bad thing to go back to the low basics. I've been riding for over 30 years and jumped a good 25 years of that (dressage only now). All my trainers at some point took a week or two every 6 months or so and brought us back down to basics....back on a lunge line if we ended up alone for whatever reason or doing those simplistic grids etc. This happened more often if the class was getting cocky and the jumping position was beginning to suffer.

    I will try those exercises. I've been working on my two-point lately, and now I will bring our kitchen timer out and set it for 15 mins. I will set up a line of bounces/etc soon and use those.

    I'm thinking I will keep recording my rides and then look back at the videos to see what I'm doing wrong. Maybe I will eventually compare the first and last video to see the change.

    So here is a big question. Next weekend is our first highshool equestrian show of the year (and there is 3). Should I ask my coach to scratch me from the jumping? I would like to compare last years to this years, but if everyone truly thinks I'm in danger going over nine jumps set at 2'3-2'6 then I will scratch. It would definitely take my fun class away of the day, but I guess I could live with that.
         
    Sponsored Links
    Advertisement
     
        08-30-2013, 12:16 PM
      #22
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KylieHuitema    
    As for this, it was definitely not the best idea to try on my horse. He messed up his striding, and I got popped out of the saddle one too many times. He also did something extremely uncharacteristic for him, which was not even attempt to get over a jump and push right through it. I had a bounce, and then a stride and an oxer, and he rammed right through the oxer. After I set it back up, and kept a solid seat, and pumped with my butt, he popped right over it with no problem. It was really weird.
    Like tlkng1 said, holding the two point is a great exercise to develop/improve balance. This is traditionally how people are taught to jump, or how problems in training are corrected. People are much less likely to "throw" their body at the horse, because you're focusing on just staying the same over the jump as you were on approach. If you read the work of the real masters of this sport, like George Morris, you would read that over fences, you should primarily use your leg to drive a horse forward. The American style over fences is a very light seat, with the horse going forward from just leg. (If you watch riders from different countries, you can see some of the differences in the US training system versus other country's systems. Although, everyone I know who has learned to ride in different countries is still capable of riding in a half seat. They don't HAVE to sit down on the horse to get the job done. Being able to ride in several different seats is really the sign of a skilled rider.)

    You might find it useful to pick up some books written by George Morris. He is a fantastic trainer and is very skilled at making himself very easy to understand. His "Hunter Seat Equitation" book has been the gold standard for decades.

    Regarding your horse's difficulty jumping through a grid without you sitting down on him, that would make me want to jump him through MORE grids, while staying out of his way. Horses need a chance to develop their eye, just like people and letting him jump without interference from his rider will let him figure out his own balance. I'd set up a really easy gymnastic, like trot in to a ground pole, six feet to a little crossrail, bounce (maybe set a little short, since you trotted in, try it at 10') to a low vertical, 1 stride (24') to a low, ramp-y oxer and just go through it a few times until he figures it out. If he adds a stride, or hits a rail, just go through it again, staying out of his way. Let him learn from his mistakes. It's good time for you to work on your position too, focus on staying quiet with your upper body (no leaning at the jump! If you want him to go more forward, put your leg on) and giving a good release over each jump.
         
        08-30-2013, 12:33 PM
      #23
    Foal
    Oh and I just watched your video and I can see that you've been working on the suggestions given here! I see some definite improvement, especially in your upper body. What I loved about the video is that you're doing a much better job holding your upper body still and quiet to the fences and as your horse leaves the ground. You're much less dramatic with your body which is exactly as it should be! You don't need to jump for your horse, let him jump up to you. I agree about your assessment of your leg, it looks like it is becoming more solid and you have more depth and weight in your heel.

    The things I'd like to see you work on next would be staying off your horse's back as he lands. You hold your two point very well to and at the start of the jump, but over the apex and landing side of teh jump, you let your body fall back towards his back. Imagine that there are thumbtacks on your saddle and you don't want to sit on them on the landing! Stay off your horse's back at least until all his feet have landed on that other side of the jump.

    The other thing that I would advise would be shortening your reins just a little, so your hands can be out in front of you a little more.

    Finally, I'd spend some time doing transitions in the two point. Make sure your horse will go forward from just your leg, and promptly. If you watch your very first jump in the video, your horse is a bit under the pace and at the jump, you throw your body at him a little. I can absolutely understand why - you want him to be more forward, so he can get over the jump! But train your body to ask with leg for more impulsion, not your body.

    Sorry for the novel! I hope that this is helpful and if you have any questions about what I've said, I'm happy to clarify. I can see that you're working hard and I'm happy to share what expertise I have. I've been riding for 20 years and show successfully in the hunters and jumpers on the AA circuit, so hopefully I can give you some insight!

    As far as your show, I would ask your trainer what she thinks is best. 2'3" to 2'6" aren't huge fences and I don't think you'd be in danger jumping around a course at that height. Since she works with you in person though, I'd defer to her opinion. :)

    P.S. Definitely keep adding videos of your progress!!
         
        08-30-2013, 12:35 PM
      #24
    Super Moderator
    I think one of your biggest problems is that you are too tough on yourself, too critical and that's making you push so much for 'perfection' that you're moving away from it rather than towards it
    You might not be nervous but you do look really tense and stiff because you're trying too hard.
    Try to relax and enjoy what you're doing a bit. Let yourself go with the horses movement and stop worrying so much about all the 2 point stuff for a while - there's a time and a place for it but it shouldn't be the be all and end all of what you do. It can result in a rider getting ahead of the horse if you rely too much on it
    I'm attaching a link to UK showjumper Tim Stockdale coaching his young son. Tim is a top level showjumper so knows his stuff. The pony is very strong and forward going - quite a handful.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBKvFXl8RIc
         
        08-30-2013, 12:52 PM
      #25
    Weanling
    I haven't read the other replies, so hopefully I'm not repeating too much. You look very stiff and hunched through the shoulders in all the pictures, like your hollowing out your back. Work on relaxing and moving with the horse. You have to find the balance of staying relaxed and flexible while keeping your back straight.

    It looks like you are using your feet a lot to hold yourself up also, here are two things my trainer had me do to strengthen my legs for jumping. First, get on your horse bareback and at a walk let yourself slip to the side of the horse, then pull yourself back up onto his back using just your leg. It will strengthen your upper thighs which are needed to hold on if your horse slides sideways to refuse a jump. Second, jump without stirrups. My trainer would take the stirrups off of our saddles if we started standing too high for 2 point or were relying on our stirrups too much.

    Hope these help.
         
        08-30-2013, 06:38 PM
      #26
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KWPNowner    
    Oh and I just watched your video and I can see that you've been working on the suggestions given here! I see some definite improvement, especially in your upper body. What I loved about the video is that you're doing a much better job holding your upper body still and quiet to the fences and as your horse leaves the ground. You're much less dramatic with your body which is exactly as it should be! You don't need to jump for your horse, let him jump up to you. I agree about your assessment of your leg, it looks like it is becoming more solid and you have more depth and weight in your heel.

    The things I'd like to see you work on next would be staying off your horse's back as he lands. You hold your two point very well to and at the start of the jump, but over the apex and landing side of teh jump, you let your body fall back towards his back. Imagine that there are thumbtacks on your saddle and you don't want to sit on them on the landing! Stay off your horse's back at least until all his feet have landed on that other side of the jump.

    The other thing that I would advise would be shortening your reins just a little, so your hands can be out in front of you a little more.

    Finally, I'd spend some time doing transitions in the two point. Make sure your horse will go forward from just your leg, and promptly. If you watch your very first jump in the video, your horse is a bit under the pace and at the jump, you throw your body at him a little. I can absolutely understand why - you want him to be more forward, so he can get over the jump! But train your body to ask with leg for more impulsion, not your body.

    Sorry for the novel! I hope that this is helpful and if you have any questions about what I've said, I'm happy to clarify. I can see that you're working hard and I'm happy to share what expertise I have. I've been riding for 20 years and show successfully in the hunters and jumpers on the AA circuit, so hopefully I can give you some insight!

    As far as your show, I would ask your trainer what she thinks is best. 2'3" to 2'6" aren't huge fences and I don't think you'd be in danger jumping around a course at that height. Since she works with you in person though, I'd defer to her opinion. :)

    P.S. Definitely keep adding videos of your progress!!


    This was extremely helpful! I will definitely work on the landings and transitions tomorrow. As for the person I am working with, she knows little about equitation over fences. She's watched my out of control jumping and poor eq. For 2 years now, and still says "wow". (let's just say she doesn't watch very closely, since in one practice, my horse ran into the fence twice during the pattern.. she didn't notice and said "great job!")

    I probably will talk to a girl that is on the team that has done hunter jumper for 10 years and has amazing legs.
         
        08-30-2013, 06:45 PM
      #27
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jaydee    
    I think one of your biggest problems is that you are too tough on yourself, too critical and that's making you push so much for 'perfection' that you're moving away from it rather than towards it
    You might not be nervous but you do look really tense and stiff because you're trying too hard.
    Try to relax and enjoy what you're doing a bit. Let yourself go with the horses movement and stop worrying so much about all the 2 point stuff for a while - there's a time and a place for it but it shouldn't be the be all and end all of what you do. It can result in a rider getting ahead of the horse if you rely too much on it
    I'm attaching a link to UK showjumper Tim Stockdale coaching his young son. Tim is a top level showjumper so knows his stuff. The pony is very strong and forward going - quite a handful.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBKvFXl8RIc
    It probably is one of my problems I am slightly a perfectionest because of high expectations of parents, and it probably carries over into my riding.. Never thought of that before. I usually have way better rides when I don't have a show on my mind.. Maybe because I think I have to meet a certain standard.. Who knows.

    Honestly, my favorite thing to do is to ride and jump bareback. I have a video on youtube of it, and it by far is my favorite thing. When I am having fun, my horse works so much better. I will definitely work on thinking less perfectionist and more fun.

    The video has a good thing to practice too. I will be setting up cones to stop by and start from tomorrow when I ride. I can see them helping a lot.
         
        08-30-2013, 11:31 PM
      #28
    Yearling


    I've always had a hard time seeing that I have improved, but this photo says something to me. I see the changes I've made in this comparison. I'd like to thank whoever has given me constructive criticism and good exercises to do, because they are helping! Thank you so much!
    jaydee likes this.
         
        08-31-2013, 05:27 PM
      #29
    Weanling
    Looks much better! Keep it up!
         

    Thread Tools

    Similar Threads
    Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
    Is jumping bad for horses? hberrie Horse Talk 6 05-02-2012 09:52 AM
    Jumping Position - as bad as I think it is? Dartanion Horse Riding Critique 4 04-23-2009 01:16 AM
    is my jumping position really bad?? hannah_xx Jumping 11 10-08-2008 10:55 PM
    Jumping Lesson (Went bad :O) Vicizmax Horse Riding Critique 37 08-17-2008 04:51 AM
    Really Bad Jumping Form? LukeyD Horse Training 1 10-07-2007 04:12 PM



    All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:11 AM.


    Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
    Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
    Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0