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MartinGale's Really Nescessary?

This is a discussion on MartinGale's Really Nescessary? within the Jumping forums, part of the English Riding category
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    01-21-2010, 05:32 PM
  #21
Green Broke
Sounds like you got some pretty sound advice from some of the posters. However, I would like to chime in here...

Martingales are not the spawn of the devil, ok? Not if used correctly. They are NOT useless and they are FAR from abusive. Using it to tie a horse's head down? Yeah abusive... but so is yanking on a lead rope over and over and over for no reason... It's not the equipment that is abusive, it's the hands that it is used in.

I use it on my mare because she is an extremely talented and powerful jumper who gets enthusiastic once in a while and flips her head (only when going 3'3" and above it seems) and I use one... on occasion.

But my point is, just because one person uses it incorrectly, don't think that that is how the training aid is actually used. Because usually, it's not.
     
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    01-21-2010, 09:08 PM
  #22
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by eventerdrew    
Sounds like you got some pretty sound advice from some of the posters. However, I would like to chime in here...

Martingales are not the spawn of the devil, ok? Not if used correctly. They are NOT useless and they are FAR from abusive. Using it to tie a horse's head down? Yeah abusive... but so is yanking on a lead rope over and over and over for no reason... It's not the equipment that is abusive, it's the hands that it is used in.

I use it on my mare because she is an extremely talented and powerful jumper who gets enthusiastic once in a while and flips her head (only when going 3'3" and above it seems) and I use one... on occasion.

But my point is, just because one person uses it incorrectly, don't think that that is how the training aid is actually used. Because usually, it's not.
Well said - I usually avoid commenting on posts like this cause it is often taken out of context - but I do like reading peoples thoughts :)

I love this biit of your post

It's not the equipment that is abusive, it's the hands that it is used in.


Cause that's so true

Good luck with what ever you decide (to the OP :))
     
    01-22-2010, 03:19 PM
  #23
Foal
I just want to boil it down and sum it up:

No, martinglaes are not necessary. They are training aids used primarily for horse's with high head carriages. You might not need one. I know some people who ride in them just for looks but then they're super loose.
And yes, they can be abusive. Try jumping without them and if you think your horse might do better with a martingale, consult MULTIPLE people first and all. That way you get a variety of opinions but still listen to that person you trust most.
     
    01-24-2010, 10:37 AM
  #24
Trained
They are not training aids. They teach the horse NOTHING, all they are, are gadgets used by the rider as a preventative from getting smashed in the face.

Anyone who believes that Martingales are a Training Aid, should sit and re-evaluate their use of these vices and re-educate themselves - for their horses benefit, and themselves.
     
    01-24-2010, 04:02 PM
  #25
Foal
I guess I was unclear about my post. But a martingale is a "training aid". It teaches the horse to only use a certain range of motion and trains them not to flip their head up. I hack my horse without a martingale. I use it when I show and jump. And I think a horse without a martingale look very akward. Excuse me and all the others riding on the "A" circuit hunter/jumpers for using a "cruel" device. When a standing martingale is used correctly, it will not limit the horses range of motion and I jump 3'+. My horse does get over excited in the winter and buck and sort of rear and just flail his body around. He's a retired jumper and gets angry when I make him wait for the jumps or if I use too much of my left rein because his old rider used to just hang on it. You can call me a "bad rider" all you want but I was educated under a professional who was going to be an olympic contestant in dressage and even on her young dressage horse she uses a standing martingale. A martingale is not necessary unless you have a reason for it. You can tell me I "neglect" and "abuse" my horse all I want, but my martingale is fitted properly and it is weird how my horse goes around with his ears up and always intent and happy if he is in "so much pain". When the horse is ridden properly and on the bit, the martingale shouldn't even come into contact with them, which mine doesn't. It is just a practice that all the hunter riders do.
     
    01-24-2010, 07:02 PM
  #26
Trained
It does not train the horse to not flip their head up - it just prevents them from being able to do so.

The moment you take the gadget off, the horse has not learnt a thing, and will go back to his or her old way's of high head carraige.

Just because a rider is at A Circuit, doesn't mean they belong there.

A Martingale is a gadget, made by man, for man - not the horse.
     
    01-24-2010, 07:40 PM
  #27
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIEventer    
They are not training aids. They teach the horse NOTHING, all they are, are gadgets used by the rider as a preventative from getting smashed in the face.

Anyone who believes that Martingales are a Training Aid, should sit and re-evaluate their use of these vices and re-educate themselves - for their horses benefit, and themselves.
Well said!!!
     
    01-24-2010, 08:14 PM
  #28
Super Moderator
[quote=ohsareee;525301]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohsareee    
Hello! You're planning to jump your horse? I read a bit of you tidbit about him. I guess its worth a try, but that will put alot of stress on his legs and his is older. But, your horse and your choices, not mine.

If a horse reaches age without becoming unsound, than jumping is JUST FINE. He will, likely do better than a young horse with unproven soundness.

Anywho...a martingale is a "training aid".

A martingale is a "CORRECTIVE" aid for a horse who has demonstrated a resistance. At least that is what a martingale was designed for. It has become a "fashion item" much the way a flash (another corrective piece of tack) has become in the dressage world. It's silly to use one on a horse that doesn't need one, IMO. Why tell a judge you need this corrective gear, when you don't.

A standing martingale(when fitted properly and used with a stopper) will give a horse a range of head motion to an extent so the horse cannot pull its head straight up in the air and avoid the bit. It is a standard item used over fences in hunters and equitation.

Standard? Yes, today it is, sadly. I hate seeing corrective devices used, if they are not needed. Silly!

I always use a martingale on my horse, because I think that they look akward without one, it breaks up their neck so even though I have an equitation horse who goes on the bit and in a little frame when jumping and doesn't require one, I like to use it for aesthetic purposes.

You are advertising a horse as needing this for correction. It's too bad we think it is needed to "balance" a horse out. It's like saying one should endeavor to show in draw reins, because they look good.

In show manuals it is said that one "may" be used at riders discretion but it is just something most everyone uses over fences

May, not should...


, and personally if I was judging, if two horses were equal and one was without a martingale, I would pin it lower.

So, as a judge, you would place the better trained horse lower than the horse that the rider is advertising as having a problem? Please, don't get your judges card....

But that is my personal opinion. A running martingale is very popular on the eventing and jumper circuit. It is not allowed in the hunter rings.

That's OK, the standing is not allowed in eventing....for good reason.

It works more like draw reins, when a horse is trained properly, the running martingale puts pressure on the bit to get the horse to lower his head and neck and encourages him to go "on the bit".

I don't think you are very familiar with running martingales. OR, you have only seen them used adjusted very incorrectly.

Again, martingales aren't necessary but when schooling, even flatting, I use one. But my horse was pulling a little stunt where he would just shake his head like crazy when he was bored with whatever we were doing.

Have you considered he was resisting something you might have been doing? Maybe you need to look closer at the reason he was resisting so much.

It is a good idea to invest in a standing martingale and even use it when just hacking. Make sure it is fitted properly or it will give no help.

I'm sorry if this seems like a rude rant. I just get so upset when I see these kinds of comments and suggestions. I have had to retrain too many horses who have been put into tight standing martingales (tie downs) for no good reasons than "style". Not a good reason, IMHO.
     
    01-24-2010, 09:00 PM
  #29
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohsareee    
It is a standard item used over fences in hunters and equitation.

Although Zazou Hoffman's horse didn't wear a martingale when she won the Maclays this past year.
     
    01-24-2010, 09:12 PM
  #30
Weanling
Personally.. there is no need what so ever for a martingale. I've jumped 2 foot 6... and without a martingale and it is percetly great. It really doesnt matter in my opinion theyre just used to controll your horse to make them look pretteir
     

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