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My horse refuse to jump

10K views 34 replies 17 participants last post by  myperuvianpaso 
#1 ·
I don't know if this has frequently been asked about in horse forum, but I can't find anything that really helps. My pony has natural talent at jumping, when he decides to go over it. However, when I try and jump him, he either slows down and runs to the side or just stops dead a few metres away. His tack and hooves etc. are all fine. We think it is a mix of being a bit scared and he also occasionally can't be bothered. When he does jump though, he really enjoys it and ****** his ears forward! He does this every time I jump, even though he has another pony to follow after. I also can't afford to get a trainer, and have limited resources. What should I do?
 
#2 ·
The horse is refusing jumps for some reason or another. Perhaps it's a lack of confidence in himself or the rider, perhaps he's being stubborn. How much jumping experience do YOU have, and was the horse trained to jump before you got him? Is he better behaved if he has another rider on his back? Does he refuse more at certain types of jumps (bright colors, solid objects, etc) or is he pretty universal about it? Does he generally only refuse when you get to jumps of a certain height, or is he just as likely to refuse a tiny crossrail?

If you don't have the expertise and experience to ride him through the refusals then you should not be attempting to jump this horse, especially without a trainer to help you. It can get really dangerous really fast, and the problem will get worse. The only thing I would advise doing on your own is going back to the bare basics, working on the flat and with poles. I've seen WAY too many accidents happen from simple refusals to be at all comfortable advising you handle the situation on your own without the help of a trainer. It's likely not the advise you were looking for, but you and the horse could get seriously injured. I am not an experienced jumper and am not qualified to rehab a refuser, so don't feel as though I'm picking on your abilities!!
 
#4 ·
Golden Horse - I am 14 years old and I have jumped a lot on previous ponies with my Dad (who is really horsey) coaching me on my technique and how to ride. There is also someone who rents our stables who used to compete who is trying to help me out. She is very helpful, but we have to start at square one again every day.
Duck Dodgers - People have tried training him before and got him over hunter jumps, similar to the homemade ones I have. This pony trusts me a lot and would NEVER try to hurt me. I believe there is a reason that he won't jump and I will try whatever I can to help him. Every time we jump, we only jump at just above his knee height anyway, so it is not high at all. He stops at most jumps except when autumn trailing when he will jump any height. I am the only one who rides him as my sister is not experienced enough and I am the only one who can ride him over the jumps. I think it is just the pole he is afraid of. I was thinking of maybe trying to free lunge him over trotting poles with my Dad watching? Do you think that would work? If it is too dangerous I will definitely stick to flat, but I will do all I can to get him jumping again. Also I can ride him easily enough and there is always a positive end to it, when I get him over something, no matter how small it is.
 
#7 ·
Of course your pony is not deliberately trying to hurt you. I'm not saying that he's going out of his way to make a dangerous situation, but a dangerous situation is the end result. Refusals have left many a good rider in the dirt, or often worse, falling into the jump. While your father may have taught you to be a decent rider on a variety of ponies there's a HUGE difference between riding trained horses and dealing with a problem horse.

Have you seen how he reacts to ground poles? That should have been a first step if you're not sure of a horse's jumping abilities. I'm not experienced in training a horse to jump, but free lunging over poles doesn't seem like a bad idea. Get him very comfortable with ground poles in various configurations before you even think about jumping. What has your friend been telling you to do with your pony? Knee height is not a tiny jump for an unexperienced horse. It can be very intimidating if the horse hasn't worked his way up to it, and particularly if he isn't comfortable with ground poles yet.

I would still highly recommend holding off on jumping until you could enlist the help/evaluation of a qualified trainer. Keep to the flat and ground poles (if you can get the horse comfortable with them) and save up until you can get some lessons in.
 
#10 ·
I would still highly recommend holding off on jumping until you could enlist the help/evaluation of a qualified trainer. Keep to the flat and ground poles (if you can get the horse comfortable with them) and save up until you can get some lessons in.
Thank you and I will do this and just jump my sister's pony who is more willing! It is a shame but I will keep free lunging him over poles and if he gets more comfortable, take him over some trotting poles. I really hope you did not think I was rude in the last post as I realise I sounded like it, sorry.
 
#8 ·
Horses/ponies that are like this are usually best forgotten as far as ever being competitive jumpers goes - he can do it 'when he wants too' and short of whipping him over every time he doesn't want too you're unlikely to change that attitude - and a horse that's forced that way is never going to give its best
I've had lots of amazing hunting horses that would go over anything cross country no matter how big or wide that were totally useless in the show jumping ring because they could see no point in it
I've had a few Arabians/part Arabians that were the same.
You can't always make a horse what it isn't cut out to be and to be any good competitively a horse has to want to jump
 
#9 ·
Well from the picture, it really looks like you have some work to do in improving your technique, and until you can do that then you will struggle to be able to really get the pony going.

For now, forget about jumping, especially if you feel the pony is afraid of the poles, jumping starts with flat work, so for now just scatter the jump poles around your riding area and simply ride over them in your flat work. That gets the pony to ignore the 'scary' poles and just concentrate on what you are asking. When you can happily school over ground poles with no issues, then you can move on.

I am not a trainer or a coach, but what I see in your position is that you are doing way to much with your body. I would like to see your butt not coming out of the saddle at that height, rather the body quietly folding forward and you hands showing some release for the horse.

If you think about what you are doing, you are throwing your weight forward, this gives you less chance to drive a horse on if he is backing off the fences, it also really changes the way he balances himself. At the same time I am not seeing much release with your hands, so it's possible that you are catching him in teh mouth when you jump.

As I say I'm no coach, and we are looking at one snapshot of time, so I could be way off. I love the shape he is making over the fence.
 
#13 ·
DuckDodgers - Thank you so much for your advice about all this! I will try and remember to tell you what happens when I try all this (when I get away from boarding school). Also this picture is one of the only ones I have...the only reason I have such harsh contact with his mouth is because this is the first time he had jumped over it during that training session!
 
#14 ·
I want to take this opportunity to learn something, so im hijacking for a moment....

I've just started taking lessons to improve my position and my geldings over jumps for hunts and hunter paces.

Is the pony in the pic to flat, or hallow through his back and stretching to much, or reaching for the jump to much?

I tend not to release enough is this what my instructor is talking about? I'm not seeing a release with the reins.

Thank you so much OP, for letting an old lady trying something new to use your post and pic to ask some questions!

What breed is your pony?
 
#15 ·
It looks like you have some work to do with your position and it also looks like pony has some work to do with his technique. He's jumping big and a little inverted, looks like a nervous pony to me! Did you say they the person who tried to train him over fences had the same problems?

You said your dad is horsey, so hopefully he can help you with this: make sure your lunging technique is spot on, poor lunging can create just as many training holes and problems as poor riding can! And then get that pony free jumping, no rider on his back, no hand / leg signals to worry about. Start with ground poles, cross rails, little verticals, etc. until he's super comfortable with it. When you're riding skip the jumping all together and work on poles, create a 'course' of poles on the ground and REALLY focus on keeping your rhythm consistent, pony between your legs and going straight and FORWARD over the poles. Aside from 'courses' I would work on poles on circles (start with circling over 1 pole, and then 2, and then 4), bounce poles and lines of poles. This will help BOTH of you (especially if you really really work on your two-point through all of the exercises).

When you eventually start riding over jumps I'd kick the verticals all together for awhile. I find cross-rails give the pony (and the rider) a middle to focus on. Keep your eyes up, focus on getting to the center of the cross rail, leg on, the same thing you did with the poles. You may also want to try creating a 'chute' to the cross rail (poles on either side of the jump, to keep him from ducking out). Do the same sort of exercises with cross-rails (not verticals), circles, lines, bounce jumps, etc. and when pony is a master at cross-rails you can build it up to some small verticals.

**Normally I wouldn't suggest ANY of that when not working with a trainer, but you said your dad is horsey and I'm hopeful that he's willing to help you out.

Be consistent, but remember not to over-do it. I hate to see people jumping 5 days a week, even small jumps can wear the ponies out and turn them sour.

(The photo is pretty blurry, but I'm going to tell you what I think you should be focusing on in the mean time with your two-point position:

Your legs have swung back, it looks like you're pinching with the knee. Focus on sinking your weight into your heels and supporting yourself with your calves, maybe part of your problem is because you're pinching with your knee, your lower leg is swinging / loose and NOT on ponies' sides telling him to go forward. Keeping your lower leg on and at the girth is a big part of jumping!

In your two-point on the flat work on bringing your tush back over the center of the saddle. As it is you're very far forward over the pommel, bringing your weight back will create a more balanced rider which means a more balanced pony, which will DEFINITELY make jumping easier).

Bring your eyes up! I think this is one of the most important. You're going to go where you're looking, look UP and FORWARD and it'll be easier to get pony to go forward.

I'd like to see you with a little more contact, especially because a problem you've been having is pony ducking out to the side. Have contact with ponies' mouth (not pulling, make sure you know the difference between pulling and contact) and when you do start jumping again plant your hand on the neck and follow his head, bringing your hands up the neck. This way it's harder for pony to duck out the side.

Your very first step is to start working on your position and your ponies' confidence over poles, when you're ready to start working him over fences try free-jumping first. You want to make jumping a good experience every time, while still making sure you're confident enough to catch his mistakes and correct them immediately. It sounds like he's already developed some bad habits, so you're going to have to work pretty hard to correct all of them!
 
#16 ·
(I'm super sorry for the novel, but hopeful I managed to get everything across without sounding too confusing! If you want clarification on anything let me know. && Sarah, I'll try to answer a couple of your questions too, I didn't want to throw it into my last post because it's already massive :oops:

Yes, pony does look pretty hollow. It could be a result of nerves, excitement or inexperience (or a combination), to me it doesn't look like he's stretching too much it actually almost looks like he got a little TOO close to the base of the jump and went UP instead of forward.

To know what your problem with release is we'd need to see a picture of you riding. I like to see somebody with contact who pushes their arms forward for a release, instead of having long drooping reins. This way you can pick up contact on the opposite side of the jump.
 
#17 ·
Alexischristina - thank you for all that advice and I will follow it as much as possible... The other owners did not have much luck, and I am the only one who has been able to get him jumping properly, even if it is a bit awkward and unnatural.
Also, for those who were wondering, the breed is unknown, possibly thinking Icelandic/new forest/Exmoor/highland... We don't know!
 
#19 ·
so first I would rule out physical causes. if he is sore somewhere, jumping may be uncomfortable. this includes teeth and tack.

second, rider error. this happens ALOT. if the rider is unbalanced, pulls on the mouth, thuds down during landing or rides inappropriately over a jump, upsetting the horses balance, the horse may refuse to jump.

Last, if, like many recreational horses, he has never been trained to jump, just pointed at them and expected to go over, you could have a horse that lacks confidence and understanding. When a professional trains a jumper, they do a ton of flat work, then incorporate poles, w/t/c, then low cross rails, then slowly working up to actual jumps. Doing it this way builds the horses confidence, and teaches them what their job is. I cant tell you how many horses I have seen that refuse jumps, duck out, over jump and run out, all from people who did not have the desire or understanding to back up and go back to the beginning and start properly and slowly.
 
#21 ·
A horse is taught to jump progressively. Starting with caveletti (poles on the ground) to an X (higher on each side/crossed in the middle) with WINGS (which funnel the horse to the jump. He is obviously over jumping and you end up standing in up the irons to try and follow this.

IF you lunge over a Xrails, they too need wings to funnel the horse.
 
#23 ·
I am 99.9 % sure its not your fault that "you are starting to high" or something like that. Horses know how to go over how to go over jumps. With my lame pony, she used to refuse a few years ago and I used to fly off lol. Now since I don't try and jump her like every other day (not saying you do) she will go over a 2 ft foot jump without a bridle and not refuse. (I only jump her that high that high cause that is were she is comfortable with her lameness)
 
#28 ·
There are a number of reasons that a horse will refuse. Obviously, lameness would be a great reason for that. You wouldn't want to jump if you're hurting! But, starting too high or taking it too quickly is a very legitimate possibility. Most horses have the natural ability to jump a certain height, but that doesn't mean that they have the confidence to do so without working up to it.
 
#25 ·
x2. Having watched a lot of schoolies and countless lessons over the years I've seen horses and ponies that can be dramatically different with a skilled rider on them vs an inexperienced (or bad form) rider. The beginners that aren't balanced, pull on their mouth, balance with their reins, etc etc will often result in run outs or refusals simply because the horse doesn't feel that it can safely get itself over a jump (either due to the strong potential for pain, or they feel there's a risk of a trip/fall), much less the rider as well.

Add to that horses that have just figured it out that a beginner won't make them do something they've decided they can get away with not doing, and it's a recipe for even more problems. I can think of one particularly pony at our lesson barn that is bullheaded and routinely takes advantage of one rider who often riders him (I've seen entire lessons without one successful jump), but during the show season pins consistently with a whole different level rider on him.

Some horses have a jumper mindset and will go over anything they're pointed at regardless of what's happening on their backs or the risks they may know they're putting themselves in, but others need a confident, experienced, balanced and alpha rider on them to perform to the same level. I think this one particularly pony is in that class. ;)
 
#27 ·
I saw your pic and now can't seem to see it, maybe it's taking too long to upload. You need to give your horse his head way more. If you pull back on their mouth when they're jumping, they can't do it, they need to stretch their head forward. I'll try to post a pic I have (so you can see) if I can make it work!
 
#29 ·
From the picture I also agree that your technique definitely needs some work before you consider jumping proper fences. I am not trying to be rude, but the riders position has a big effect on the way the horse jumps and travels over the fences (I know this from experience). I would begin by working with ground poles and riding the pony over ground poles I would start off by setting the poles up in a like start off with one and then add more poles (make sure that you get your distances right because horses take larger strides then what ponies do meaning that ponies will need more strides between poles then horses). Start off with a grid in a straight line and then scatter them around the paddock. Make sure when you are coming up to each pole, that you are looking straight ahead (not at the pole), make sure your hands are not resting on the horses neck, and maintain even leg pressure, and count your strides. It is also important to ensure that you maintain even contact with your hands and when going over the poles (and fences) make sure that you are giving with your hands (not holding onto the horses mouth) including when you are coming up the pole or fence because this is telling the horse to both stop and go at the same time.

Hope this Helps!
:)
 
#31 ·
I would begin by working with ground poles and riding the pony over ground poles I would start off by setting the poles up in a like start off with one and then add more poles (make sure that you get your distances right because horses take larger strides then what ponies do meaning that ponies will need more strides between poles then horses). Start off with a grid in a straight line and then scatter them around the paddock. Make sure when you are coming up to each pole, that you are looking straight ahead (not at the pole), make sure your hands are not resting on the horses neck, and maintain even leg pressure, and count your strides. It is also important to ensure that you maintain even contact with your hands and when going over the poles (and fences) make sure that you are giving with your hands (not holding onto the horses mouth) including when you are coming up the pole or fence because this is telling the horse to both stop and go at the same time.
:)
Thank you Laura94 for this, I am going home for half term in a few weeks so I will try everyone's different techniques to see which works best, taking everything into account, and not attempting too often. It is probably my errors making it worse! First step is to find myself some poles I can use. I might get some from the local sawmill. If anyone lives local to Cirencester, Gloucestershire and would be willing to give some to me, it would be much appreciated :)
 
#32 ·
Give him some time off from jumping. Work on flat work and ground work. When you feel your relationship with him is strong and trusting, then start at ground poles. When he doesn't rush/run out on/ stop before/ etcetera before a pole, change it to a SMALL jump. Let him stand in front of the jump and check it out. Then circle around the jump in both directions at walk, trot, canter. Finally, take the jump, but start at a trot. Get him over it once and leave it for the day. Do it all again the next day. If he goes over it well again the next day, do it twice. Continue each day, increasing the amount of jumps by one, until you get to five good jumps in a row. Then, try cantering over it and repeat the same process. Next, increase the height. If he gets worse, back up a step. Good luck!
 
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