Need tips for collecting canter and jumping verticals - Page 2
 
 

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Need tips for collecting canter and jumping verticals

This is a discussion on Need tips for collecting canter and jumping verticals within the Jumping forums, part of the English Riding category
  • How collected should a horses head be when jumping
  • How to collect your horse when jumping

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    11-13-2010, 12:03 PM
  #11
Yearling
Erika - a "headset" is exactly that... having the horse bending it's neck and "giving to the bit"... this is usually an early stage to "collection" or "in frame" (in the true sense)

A horse CAN give to the bit without actually pushing from behind - green horses do this frequently as they are learning where to find their balance.

"Collection" or "in frame" should display a horse who is tracking up well (not the horse in the photo), it should lower it's hindquarter to enable it to "push" off evenly from behind, and the spine should round while the tummy lifts.
     
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    11-13-2010, 12:04 PM
  #12
Trained
The horse is not tracking up. Look at where his hind feet aren't even surpassing or even landing in the spot where his front were. This horse - is definitely NOT tracking up. The hind feet don't even come near the placement of where his front feet were.

His back is dropped, his butt is high, his weight is on his forehand, his jaw is tight - that - is a horse in a "headset" or "Frame" - not collected.

Also, the description the poster gave the OP - on how to get this "picture" is all riding front to back. Getting the headset - not driving the horse into contact.


~~~

Edit - Unicorn, we posted at the same time. Lol.
     
    11-13-2010, 12:06 PM
  #13
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikaLynn    
Isnt a headset just placing your horse’s head at a certain level and position. And collection is having a horse in a rounded frame and moving off the hind end?
Can you have one without the other?

A "headset" is exactly that a place where your horse's head is placed. There are hunter "headsets", pleasure "headsets" and dressage "headsets" so to speak.

A headset is nothing more than where the most acceptable position the horse's head is for the disciple shown.

Collection on the other hand is not based on where the head is but on where the head COMES as a result of correct engagement of the hind legs.
     
    11-13-2010, 12:07 PM
  #14
Trained
^^ Great post Spyder! ^^
     
    11-13-2010, 12:17 PM
  #15
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsygirl    
Please explain MIE. I see a horse that is not collected, but moving nicely and tracking up - that's not what I would call a "headset"...
Posted via Mobile Device
If you look closely the horse isn't even tracking up... that hind is going to fall short of the front foot's hoofprint.

Tracking up... I know he's not undersaddle, or "in frame" but he's showing how the hindquarter drops to reach forward and the front end lifts
     
    11-20-2010, 08:24 PM
  #16
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastUnicorn    
If you look closely the horse isn't even tracking up... that hind is going to fall short of the front foot's hoofprint.

Tracking up... I know he's not undersaddle, or "in frame" but he's showing how the hindquarter drops to reach forward and the front end lifts
Now, from my experience, THIS is what you want while jumping. This concept of really using the hind end and having it lift the front. Using the hind end, but not doing it in a manner that gives a horse a "headset." I have been taught that having a dressage perpendicular headset while jumping is not a good idea. I just googled a video...It actually shows what I mean perfectly, but maybe not... At the beginning, the horse is simply cantering around and has a perpendicular head. Then as soon as the first approach starts, the horse raises its head and prepares to jump. Especially after the first jump, you can still see the horse really working from their hind and reaching very far under themselves. The second part is what is desired during jumping.
     
    11-21-2010, 04:53 PM
  #17
Weanling
I just noticed she falls off at the end. Umm...Don't do that part.
     
    11-21-2010, 07:27 PM
  #18
Green Broke
Um, hm... First of all, I'm don't think "collection" is really the term you're looking for here. I think what you're really wanting to know is how to keep your horse at a nice controlled pace so you can jump the jump? Collection is a completely different matter altogether and at the level you are, you really won't be in a situation where you need to "collect" the canter to a jump. You need to allow your horse to go forward out of a corner and take you to the jump, without dragging you, without being heavy on it's front end. The way you do that is to get it right on the flat so he already knows how to do it when you stick a jump in front of him. What so so so many people don't seem to realize is that a horse needs to go at a specific pace to feel comfortable to a jump. If you get him TOO slow, it's uncomfortable to the horse and you teach them to take off. Very rarely is slowing down in the corner the way to fix a horse that takes off. My gut instinct in this situation is really not as much a training issue on the horse, but the way you rode him to the fence. A horse that rushes to the fence and takes off way too early is rider error, usually caused by anxiety. (and you're not necessarily the culprit here. If he's ridden this way by lots of people he's going to be this way for almost anyone who gets on him) If you panicked and threw yourself at him, I'm going to assume that there was anxiety in your ride to the fence he was picking up on: clenching, digging with your seat, digging with your heels, stiffness in your arms, not being in balance with him, any kind of fear from you, all of the above. My advice is to learn to be solid to a jump on a horse that won't be triggered by your mistakes first, and then switch back to him.
     
    11-21-2010, 07:29 PM
  #19
Green Broke
And please please please don't ever see saw on your horse's mouth thinking it'll get him into a frame. I'm surprised Spyder and MIE didn't address this. It might be because their heads exploded after reading that...
     
    11-21-2010, 07:52 PM
  #20
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by upnover    
And please please please don't ever see saw on your horse's mouth thinking it'll get him into a frame. I'm surprised Spyder and MIE didn't address this. It might be because their heads exploded after reading that...

Not quite...an eye roll though.
     

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