Road to the Cornhusker Classic Schooling Show - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 58 Old 05-22-2012, 11:24 AM
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Well that is the thing, say horse A is a kind of steady, does a kind of OK test sort of boy, he will score a 5 maybe, for sufficient, 2 elements done in an OK manner will give him 10 marks.

Horse B is on the edge of sanity,

has a fit on his 20m circle bucks a couple of times on his nicely shaped circle he may score a 1 Very bad, but then goes on to do a stunning free walk, scores a 9.

Both horses have scored 10 on two movements.

0 – Not Executed
1 – Very Bad
2 – Bad
3 – Fairly Bad
4 – Insufficient
5 - Sufficient
6 – Satisfactory
7 – Fairly good
8 – Good
9 – Very Good
10 - Excellent

OK now we come to the possibly more subjective area, the collective scores.

Gaits: the freedom and regularity of the horse’s movement.
Impulsion: the horse’s desire to move forward, elasticity of steps, roundness.
Submission: the horse’s attention and confidence. Harmony with rider, lightness of movements and acceptance of the bit.
Rider’s seat and position: correctness and effect of aids.

Here again we can see that Horse A may score mid point on his gaits, roundness and submission, and the riders mark, well depends on the rider of course.

Horse B may have shown greater freedom and regularity, when he wasn't being an arse, probably scored well for impulsion, may have dropped a ton on submission, but if the rider did a stunning job in working through a horse with issues, rather than passengering a so so horse around they will score well.
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post #12 of 58 Old 05-22-2012, 11:29 AM
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Golden, thank you very much for that. Really. I definitely can see that line of thinking.
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post #13 of 58 Old 05-22-2012, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
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We do video Cin, and I know he is FAR from perfect. I agree with most of the judges comments. Cinny is unrefined, does not bit up properly and is very inconsistent with rounding. He rounds some days, other days he doesn't... show day he didn't. Watching his video I know he is NOT worthy of anything above 65... in fact anything above 60 would be a stretch by what I see. I DO NOT disagree with that, just to let you all know that. What I disagree with is the horses that do not perform safely and repeatedly do something nasty during their test scoring higher because I don't think that is an obedient and submissive horse. At least Cinny is obedient and submissive even if he has his problems with not knowing what to do with his head quite yet and doesn't have much topline developed.

We also video'd tanty horses....which I won't post because the owner did not know I even taped them, and I do not have their permission to post... But I will narrate a bit.

Cinny, training test 2

Horse comes in, steady but head up a little, not round.

Halts for salute but anticipates moving forward and trots on before asked.

tracking right at C bends fully into corner but nicks a board, continues forward in rhythmic trot. Horse not round but attempts to round down periodically.Appears to not know what to do with his head. Goes back and forth between being behind or in front of bit.

At B trots a 20m circle. Balanced a rhythmic, a little flat on one side. Horse still appears to not know what to do with his head and doesn't travel round.

KXM change rein. Horse rhythmic and rounds down during whole diagnal. Does not change rhythm with rein change but does pop head up slightly.

C horse moves smoothly into canter. Correct lead, 20m circle at E is round.

At V transitions into a nice trot, horse playing with being round but not consistent with it.

At A stretchy circle is more 15m instead of 20 M. Horse stretching down and blows out his nose several times. when reins are taken up he pops his head up and shallows back.

smooth transition to walk. FXM free walk is smooth and rhythmic. Horse's neck slightly curved with nose at knee level. Again horse shallows upon rein contact.

Trot transition at C smooth, not quite on the bit or round. Goes back and forth between being under the bit and over, but not correctly on the bit.

E 20M round and balanced circle, horse continues to be in front of or behind bit.

FXH change of rein, rhythm not interupted, horse still playing with where he wants his head to be

Canter at B correct lead, not as smooth as other transitions. bend and round circle

A transition to Halt smooth, staight down center Halt is at X. Horse again moves forward before asked.


Right off the bat refuses to come into the arena at A and throws a mini tanty. Rider smacks him with dressage stick and he jumps into arena trots down center line and halts.Before the rider is ready he does a prance and breaks into a canter and then is pulled back to a trot before hitting C.

Tracks right at C goes deep into the corner stops, rears thrashing it's head side to side does a little spin and a buck and then continues toward B with nice roundness and frame.

20m circle at B is round however the horse breaks into a canter every 2 or 3 strides throughout the circle. nice frame, horse on the bit and round.

KXM trot is rhythmic horse breaks into canter when rider changes rein. Again, on the bit properly and round.

Canter 20M circle at E wrong lead, rider brings to trot and asks again...wrong lead, trot then wrong lead rider gives up. Horse stargazing the whole circle.

Transtition to trot nice. Round, rhythmic and beautiful movement

Stretchy circle at A horse yanks reins and wildly breaks to canter and finishes circle at canter.

transitin to walk nice. Horse settles down, nice frame and movement, playing with bit and drooling.

Free walk FXM Again we decide to do a stargazing canter instead of freewalk.

Trot at C, nice transition, on the bit nice frame, very pretty.

20M circle at E Horse breaks to canter several times, nice frame and roundness using his back.

FXH change rein, very nice, elegant looking smooth. best movement of the test.

Canter at B, correct lead however horse bucks 2 times when asked. Horse throwing nose down to knees and appears to be attempting to run through the bridle or buck.

Trot transition a little rough with some crow hops. Straight down center line halting at X. Horse standing but tossing his head up and down.

Rider attempts a free walk out but horse breaks to trot.

Cinny's score 55.3
Arabians score 62 something

THIS IS WHAT I THINK IS UNFAIR. How the heck did the arab get THAT kind of score with THAT kind of ride when Cinny's only flaws were that he was "fussy on the bit" "needs to develop topline" and "inconsistant connection" those were the judges comments..... I don't get it. This is what makes me mad.
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post #14 of 58 Old 05-22-2012, 01:02 PM
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post #15 of 58 Old 05-22-2012, 01:07 PM
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Without seeing the tests I really don't know the answer, but you know what, dressage is about you and your horse, not everyother horse in the contest. If YOUR horse scored 50 in his last test and 51 in this one you hae progressed. If you get the best stretchy circle you have ever had then you have won!
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post #16 of 58 Old 05-22-2012, 04:09 PM
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I agree with GH, some great advice.

Honestly, and I hate to say it, but right now CW you sound like a spoilt child crying about not winning the blue ribbon. With Cinny's health and now your attitude I think it would be best for you not to show this year at all. You are obviously not having fun, not willing to learn and not willing to be humble and accept that you're not going to win anything until you put in a lot more work. I think even taking Cinny to the show was selfish because he was not fit enough for 3 tests and has just started treatment for a serious condition.

Putting it in perspective, there was a less than 6% difference between your scores and a 62% is still nothing to write home about. The average between a 4 and an 8 is a 60% and a steady test worth 5s and 6s averages lower. If you want to be judged based on how steady your horse is then try HUS or english pleasure. Dressage is judged by the movement and it's not going to change. The other test would have reflected the unsteadyness in the collectives, but in general the collectives should average to the same as the rest of the test and will not boost or lower your score.

To answer your question "How did I get that score with that ride?" read the directives at the top of the training level test: " To confirm that the horse's muscles are supple and loose and that it moves freely forward in a clear and steady rhythm, accepting contact with the bit". Now read the directives for each movement: "Balance, smoothness, quality" are words that appear a lot. No "obedience" marks, no "steadyness" marks. That is how your test did so poorly. Read the directives for the level in your rule book and on the test before pissing on the judge and your competitors.

They say money doesn't buy happiness -- well happiness doesn't buy horses!
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post #17 of 58 Old 05-22-2012, 05:29 PM Thread Starter
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You need to READ CAREFULLY what people write, especially if you are going to go so far as to call the a Spoilt Child, or say they are crying over something... seriously. Or are YOU illiterate????

I DID NOT say "How did I get that score with that ride." what I said was How did THEY (meaning the arabian) get the score they did with THEIR ride. Big big difference.

I ALSO AGREED that my horse and I deserved the scores that we got. I know my horse has a lot to develop, I know that he is not going to "win ribbons" etc etc. Again, you need to read.

What I don't get is why unsafe horses get the scores that they do, especially the Arab after it's ride.... that was all.

And also YOU DO NOT KNOW MY HORSE. Unless you go down to my barn and look at my horse and talk to my vet, and discuss with my trainer you have no grounds to say whether or not my horse is fit or not fit for something. PERIOD. You have no call to say anything about MY decision to show my horse when I HAVE discussed it with my vet and my trainer and they both agreed that he would be fine....AND HE WAS. In fact when he got home he played with his friends for the rest of the night...if the show was that hard on him he would have simply sulked in a corner because that is what he does when he's tired or not feeling well.

I know you mean well, but sometimes you can be very overbearing and uncaring and a know it all. I do admit you have a great amount of knowledge and you have a lot to offer BUT... you also assume you know the COMPLETE situation when you don't and you act like you KNOW everybody's horse and their abilities better than they, their vet and their trainers do.... and I'm sorry, unless you have had experience with those people and horses IN PERSON... you don't.

I do have a certain amount of respect for you and your knowledge but sometimes you really need to tone down and not verbally attack people just because they don't follow YOUR advice to the T.
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post #18 of 58 Old 05-22-2012, 06:10 PM
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And your reaction to Annabels comments Cinny have just confirmed to me that you are behaving like a spoiled child.

Annabel is working on the information that you have supplied on this thread and elsewhere, and you reaction is out of order.

Given your response to the show and to Annabel I really would suggest you ask yourself if dressage is the discipline for you. Once again, unless it makes you smile, unless you get joy in your own ride and in your partnership with your horse you shouldn't be doing it. When dressage becomes about your scores in relation to others, rather than your score in relation to your previous scores. When it seems that bitching about others outweighs the joy of your horse most generously trying for you, then you are in it for the wrong reason.

Here is just one definition of clssical dressage

Classical dressage can be translated, "fine training" - capriole, piaffe, levade - yet itís more than that. It defines quality in horsemanship at every stage, even at, and most importantly at, the "lowest levels". Classical dressage is about aspiring to perfection; perfect communication, perfect balance, perfect coordination, perfect feel, perfect timing, perfect harmony. Relentlessly striving to improve skill and understanding and raising the bar, yet never being satisfied that we, as riders, have truly achieved perfection on our part. We can always be more subtle in our aiding. We can always have more feel. However, this striving for perfection is not just so we can pat ourselves on the back, thinking weíre somehow superior. It is truly because when we strive to ride better, itís beneficial to the horse. The purpose behind classical dressage is to improve the experience for the horse. Characteristics of classical dressage are, imperceptible aids given by the rider, precision and light contact with the bit that results from gymnastically increasing the bending and weight carrying ability of the haunches and an obvious expression of enjoyment in the horse. Horses that are strong enough and riders who are interested can go on to the extremely collected movements and airs above the ground. That said, most horses are not that strong, and many riders are not interested in pursuing dressage to that extent, however, they can still uphold classical values when they ride their best for the good of their horses.

Nothing there about the competition, it is all about partnership between you and your horse, especially important for me, the last part.
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post #19 of 58 Old 05-22-2012, 06:23 PM
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You come on here, post after your ride, complain about the judging, say how you don't want to show anymore especially for the judge at the show because judges don't like your horse. Then you proceed to flame other competitors for showing up with horses who may or may not have issues in the ring you don't know about and may or may not be ridden by professionals, presumably to overcome said issues and then they beat you.
It's called a schooling show because people, sometimes trainers too, come to school horses. Talk about judging other people and how they and the horses they ride do in the ring without having a clue of what the horse's issues may or may not be.

You paid your money, rode your tests, now go home and be happy. Don't flame the judges and other competitors because they placed people higher than you or did better than you.

They say money doesn't buy happiness -- well happiness doesn't buy horses!
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post #20 of 58 Old 05-22-2012, 06:30 PM Thread Starter
Green Broke
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She did not read what I said and criticized me for thinking I said something I didn't.
She called me a name
She assumed my horse is unfit and criticized me for taking him to a show when she does not know my horse, nor did she consult my vet or trainer as I did.

Although irespect her as a person and as I said,I believe she has much to offer....she should not assume she knows more about someones horse than the horse’s vet,trainer and owner about its fitness and ability to perform.

And asking how a horse that misbehaves badly yet gets higher scores than a non misbehaving horse by someone trying to understand the way judges think a bit better is a legitimate question. Asking why something is the way it is and admitting you don't understand should not be reason to be called a spoilt brat or any of the other things. I never said my horse did not deserve his score. I even said I agreed with the judges comments.

You guys make it seem like Dressage is some secret society thing that you can't ask about if you don't fully understand why something is the way it is without some sort of snub or something.

And Anabel has a habit of verbally condemning me and other people if we don't follow her advice..... I kind of get tired of it. Just because someone on here decides my horse is unfitwithiut knowing or seeing him, doesn't mean I'm going to agree with that person. What I did was consult my vet AND my trainer, he was assessed the night before the show and deemed fit enough to do the three tests. In fact both my trainer and vet think that a 2 hour trail ride is far more strenuous on a horse than 3 test that are less than 4 minutes each, especially with the 2-4 hour breaks between them.
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