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Road to the Cornhusker Classic Schooling Show

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        05-22-2012, 06:40 PM
      #21
    Green Broke
    I didn't flame anyone.I voiced an opinion and then later asked how and why. Stating that someones horse was bucking and rearing is not flaming,its a statement.asking why its more acceptable than a horse that doesn't do such things is a legitimate question.

    Calling someone a spoilt brat is flaming. Saying someones horse is unfit when you have not seen it or spoken with its vet or trainer is not your call and has nothing to do with the question.

    If you don't know why a horse that does that gets more points than a horse that doesn't then you don't have to resppond with anything. Calling me a spoilt brat and saying my horse is unfitreally did nothing to help me understand anything that I was asking about.
         
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        05-22-2012, 06:49 PM
      #22
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cinnys Whinny    
    HER REACTION IS OUT OF ORDER.

    She did not read what I said and criticized me for thinking I said something I didn't. See below, I think you ,may not of read her post

    She called me a name She called you a child and you continue to act like one

    She assumed my horse is unfit and criticized me for taking him to a show when she does not know my horse, nor did she consult my vet or trainer as I did. You can take it as criticism, but all she said was "I think it was wrong", which is hugely different from stating YOU WERE WRONG

    Although irespect her as a person and as I said,I believe she has much to offer....she should not assume she knows more about someones horse than the horse’s vet,trainer and owner about its fitness and ability to perform.
    But she is allowed to sate her opinion, once again the beauty of message boards

    And asking how a horse that misbehaves badly yet gets higher scores than a non misbehaving horse by someone trying to understand the way judges think a bit better is a legitimate question. Asking why something is the way it is and admitting you don't understand should not be reason to be called a spoilt brat or any of the other things. I never said my horse did not deserve his score. I even said I agreed with the judges comments.
    And both Annebel and I were trying to explain the difference

    You guys make it seem like Dressage is some secret society thing that you can't ask about if you don't fully understand why something is the way it is without some sort of snub or something.
    No we are trying to explain

    And Anabel has a habit of verbally condemning me and other people if we don't follow her advice..... I kind of get tired of it. Just because someone on here decides my horse is unfitwithiut knowing or seeing him, doesn't mean I'm going to agree with that person. She just gave an opinion not advice, hey she advised me not to buy Ben, and for good reasons, but hey I was happy to consider her advice

    Then ignore it.

    Free advice you get on the internet is sometimes worth what you payed for it, and sometimes it is invaluable

    What I did was consult my vet AND my trainer, he was assessed the night before the show and deemed fit enough to do the three tests. In fact both my trainer and vet think that a 2 hour trail ride is far more strenuous on a horse than 3 test that are less than 4 minutes each, especially with the 2-4 hour breaks between them.
    Then maybe neither you or Cinny are working hard enough in your tests....said slightly tongue in cheek, but you get the point maybe
    My responses in red
         
        05-22-2012, 07:16 PM
      #23
    Green Broke
    I fail to see an answer the question. I explained both rides and asked why the seemingly worse ride with the bucking horse that seems unsafe would get more points. Instead its repeated that I'm a spoilt brat.

    My vet said the trail ride is ore strenuous than 3 training level tests that last only a few minutes for ANY horse, not just Cinny. Saying my horse isn't working is silly. If a few minutes of work in a showm ring is so terribly straining, I'm surprised that a 1 hour lesson in which he repeats the various elements and tests hasn't made him drop dead! Oh, and those poor cross country horses... I can't even think of those poor things. I guess they just keep all the horses dropping dead from that work completely hush hush! LOL.
         
        05-22-2012, 07:21 PM
      #24
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cinnys Whinny    
    I fail to see an answer the question. I explained both rides and asked why the seemingly worse ride with the bucking horse that seems unsafe would get more points. Instead its repeated that I'm a spoilt brat.

    My vet said the trail ride is ore strenuous than 3 training level tests that last only a few minutes for ANY horse, not just Cinny. Saying my horse isn't working is silly. If a few minutes of work in a showm ring is so terribly straining, I'm surprised that a 1 hour lesson in which he repeats the various elements and tests hasn't made him drop dead! Oh, and those poor cross country horses... I can't even think of those poor things. I guess they just keep all the horses dropping dead from that work completely hush hush! LOL.
    If you honestly believe that the few minutes in the show ring isn't straining then you really do NOT understand showing.

    And also, a lot of cross country horses DO have problems trying to keep up with the work load and high stress of going around the course at their peak performance.

    Might want to learn a little bit about horses and showing before spewing out nonsense
    NdAppy likes this.
         
        05-22-2012, 07:25 PM
      #25
    Trained
    Your vet who has trained how many Dressage horses? If you're warming up for each test for 30 minutes that's 2 hours of riding w/t/c which is a lot harder in my books than walking on a long rein for 2 hours. But then again what the hello do I know about conditioning horses.

    I'll let GH multi quote our explanations as I'm on my phone.
    Posted via Mobile Device
         
        05-22-2012, 07:26 PM
      #26
    Super Moderator
    I think it's a legitimate thing to wonder about; why one horse is scored over another , when it appears to have more problems. And, I thought that Golden's original explanation about the statistical averaging of the scores pretty much can explain it.

    It IS possible that the judge is biassed, but one would hope not. If this is the case, then there isn't much one can do. I don't think Cinny was exactly "flaming" the other competitors. Her beef isnt' with them but with the judge.

    If she comes off as whiny, well, maybe it's just having a bit of a post show rant, another way Bulletin Boards come in handy. A day or two of thinking about it and it's back to the grind; more training!
         
        05-22-2012, 07:29 PM
      #27
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cinnys Whinny    
    My vet said the trail ride is ore strenuous than 3 training level tests that last only a few minutes for ANY horse, not just Cinny. Saying my horse isn't working is silly. If a few minutes of work in a showm ring is so terribly straining, I'm surprised that a 1 hour lesson in which he repeats the various elements and tests hasn't made him drop dead! Oh, and those poor cross country horses... I can't even think of those poor things. I guess they just keep all the horses dropping dead from that work completely hush hush! LOL.
    A long trail ride and a few dressage tests in the arena can BOTH be very taxing, depending on how they're ridden. They both stress different muscle groups, so it's no surprise when horses that are trail ridden six days a week work up a sweat and are dead-tired the day after being asked to perform delicate maneuvers in frame and with precision in a confined area (Not saying this is Cinny, just using it as an example). Saying a horse should be able to ride a few dressage tests without difficulty because they're fit to take a three-hour trail ride is nonsense.
         
        05-22-2012, 07:52 PM
      #28
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cinnys Whinny    
    I fail to see an answer the question. I explained both rides and asked why the seemingly worse ride with the bucking horse that seems unsafe would get more points. Instead its repeated that I'm a spoilt brat.

    My vet said the trail ride is ore strenuous than 3 training level tests that last only a few minutes for ANY horse, not just Cinny. Saying my horse isn't working is silly. If a few minutes of work in a showm ring is so terribly straining, I'm surprised that a 1 hour lesson in which he repeats the various elements and tests hasn't made him drop dead! Oh, and those poor cross country horses... I can't even think of those poor things. I guess they just keep all the horses dropping dead from that work completely hush hush! LOL.
    I thought I had explained how it can happen, I have no idea how Cinny performed on the day, but looking at another test you have published of him, I can totally understand a horse and rider who have overall more talent? No that's not what I mean, it's close but I can't get the right word, any way my trainers mad arab scores better then G Man when we ride the same test, even though she can be a b*tch and is a difficult ride, because what she does well she does very very well, and when she screws up, well she does that well to, but Mel rides tons better than I do, so she gets bonus points for her influence on the horse, and when she has it altogether she is stunning. G Man is workmanlike and mid range for a lot of things, over all he just doesn't score as highly.

    BUT

    I will come back and make one last try at the point that I am trying to get over, you cannot stress over favouritism, real or imagined, dressage should never be about winning per se, but about your harmony with your horse, and your partnership and improvement. If you are doing it to win, give up, go do something else, if you are doing it to be the best you can be on the day, then accept winning as no more than a bonus.

    BTW it is a common misconception that there is anything safe about a dressage horse, it is a testament to the riding skills of the top flight riders that their horses look calm in the ring. Any athlete that is that fit, that responsive and that highly trained is actually a ticking bomb waiting to explode, there is a considerable amount of power and energy held in a delicate balance between hand and leg, there, and I can guarantee that if you or I climbed on board we would be ditched or run off with pretty darn quick.

    You miss my point about the tests, if you are truly warming up and trying as hard as you should be it IS draining, which why at most shows you are limited to 4 tests for any one horse
         
        05-22-2012, 07:56 PM
      #29
    Green Broke
    Cinnys daily workout usually consists of warmup on the lunge for about 15-20 minutes until he's moving freely.we then do stretches which consist of asking him to drop his nose down and through his feet,when he can easily stretch down and through till his ears are on his knees. Then a stretch on each side touching nose to butt and then stretching back and down toward his hind hoof. We do about 20 figure 8s using the full arena length at posting trot then for an hour to hour and a half we work on test elements. Canter trot transitions,ground poles, circles,bending,stretchy circles,free walk,flying lead changes,etc. Then we take a walk in the field or on trail for half hour. This is 4 or 5 times a week.

    At shows we don't really lunge. We do stretches and then a 15 min walk in the warm up working on bending and roundness. Then about 10 minutes of trot with a couple of canter departs and halts. My trainer usually only has me work him enough to get the stiffness out before a test so warm up is usually about 30 minutes max. After test we walk down and then he goes to his stall. If there is two hours or more between tests we take him to graze and/or roll in the grass and just kick it.

    I honestly thought this was far less work than our daily workouts or our lessons. About once a month we ride in a 4 to 5 hour clinic too.... and yes you ride the whole time. So I didn't really see three tests as any more strain than what we normally do. Not trying to be argumentative, just making a statement that I didn't see it the same way as others.
         
        05-22-2012, 08:09 PM
      #30
    Green Broke
    Thanx GH. Im not necessrily doing it "to win" and I know at times I express myself that way. I am however surrounded by family members and the such who are in it to win. I want to improve scores, which I did. I have shown hunters in the past back in the 90s and my trainers and schooling and even the shows were all about the horse that carried the rider well and was a joy to ride, first and foremost. Horses that threw tantys, bucked, broke gait usually never placed and depending on the number of instances during the class, were asked to leave the ring. These were USEF recognized shows.

    I think this is where my confusion and confoundment stems from. Yes it mattered how they moved, frame, roundness and proper bitting.... but a slightly flawed horse usually placed before the perfect horse that bucked or otherwise pitched a fit. Maybe I need to set my previous background and way of thinking aside.
         

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