Is there any value of a dwarf purebred Frieisan colt for breeding puproses in the miniature horse world? I know little of miniature horses - other than they are adorable! My purebred Friesian mare, bred to a purebred stallion, both of whom apparently possess a recessive dwarf gene, have produced a dwarf Frieisan colt. He's cute as a button, about 36" at his withers at 4 months old, and has a beautiful high-stepping trot. He does stand with his hind legs back further than usual and is cow-hocked. He has a long tail and already has feathers. Just don't want to geld him if he could be useful in someone's breeding program. And of course, there's always the chance he could throw a full-size foal...
Thanks for any insights and/or advice!
Absolutely not! The dwarfism gene is not desireable in any way shape or form except with the most twisted of mini breeders, and being a dwarf comes with serious health issues. Please geld him.
As a friesian mare owner, I would NEVER consider him and if I was to consider cross breeding my other mares to a friesian, I would NEVER breed to a dwarf. There are much better options that are riding, showing and have good conformation.
If he's already 36" at 4 months, he'll be too tall to be used as a mini breeder - and since he's out of two full grown horses, I'd be concerned - if bred to a mini - that she might be at risk if the full-sized gene was dominant. Minis tend to be more at risk in birthing anyway!
Since he's only 4 months old, I wouldn't worry about things or make any plans (or even worry about gelding) until he's at least a yearling. At that point you can make your decisions.
I'm simply finding out if he'd have any value to the miniature horse breed, not the Frieisan breed. He is a Frieisan. The recessive gene is the result of breeding dwarf Frieisan mares in the past, not something anyone wants to continue. However, he's sound and healthy, not a twisted monstrosity such as you describe.
Oh my what is that @Dehda01 ? Well I'm guessing it's the dwarf gene showing up in Friesians, if that is the case, NO NO NO geld him, in fact geld him anyway, the world does need dwarf genes in animals being spread.
Apparently you missed the part that I was asking about his value in the miniature horse world. Many miniature horses were initially bred and developed from dwarf horses. Dwarfism is a recessive gene in Friesians as they are inbred over the past 100 years. He would never be used for breeding a Friesian, obviously!
Dwarfism is a severe genetic flaw. Minis have enough problems with it on their own, I don't know if the two types of dwarfism are on the same loci, but either way. No, no, no, no. Geld yesterday.
I guess what everyone is trying to say is that he would not be an ideal candidate for someone's miniature horse breeding program, especially if he could potentially make a mini mare throw a full size colt. I believe you said that was possible?
I say this in the kindest way...how would he be of value to a mini horse breeder? He would be introducing a pair of recessive dwarf gene carrying .... heart issues, and leg deformities ON TOP OF ALL THE FRIESIAN HEALTH ISSUES to a breed that already has difficulty with birthing, and conformation issuesThat is DANGEROUS. Dwarves often break down with the connective tissues as the age, so just because he is not yet showing all the typical signs, does not mean he will not get worse. Most dwarves do not live a full lifespan, unfortunately.
Plus the foaling could kill the mare, depending what genes are expressed.
Dwarfism isn't just about 'being tiny', that shows you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the condition. Nothing dwarf should ever be bred, no matter the breed. Yet it happens because tiny things are cute. If a mini breeder really wanted the look of a Fresian they'd be better off breeding down a Dales.
Luckily, you don't have my history. A stormy night, small black Shetland mare trying to birth a huge foal (sold to an unknowingly ignorant 12-year-old for very low price). Both died. This story has taken me back to a very sad place 50 years ago. I vote for gelding.
I don't know how to import a photo into this message board. So don't assume what you don't know. However, his photo is in my album. His name is Tyrion. I will geld him. I simply asked a question to be sure that he had no value in the miniature horse world. Question answered. Many thanks to those with knowledge who shared that knowledge on this forum. Less thanks to those who simply expressed opinions without knowledge.
As a vet tech, I have dealt with more than my fair share of the heart break that comes with dwarves, minis and everything in between. Tyrion shows dwarf characteristics in his back and legs. I hope he does not have the other many internal complications that I quoted. Best of luck.
Miniature horses were not bred from horses with dwarfism - they were selectively bred from small horses like the Shetland pony. Dwarfism is a disorder, selective breeding for smallness is not.
Miniature horse breeders would not be interested in this horse because he is not naturally small - it is a recessive gene from two normal-sized, lighter draft horses, basically making him a one-off. Dwarfism is an undesirable condition for breeding because it's so unpredictable - you wind up with horses that can barely walk, have bugged-out eyes, their bodies cannot contain their organs, and they often have severe spinal deformities.
The ideal miniature horse displays excellent conformation, and should look like a "normal" horse, just shrunk down. Without a size reference, you often can't tell that a well-bred miniature horse is tiny when you are looking at a picture.
So no, this horse really does not have any value as a breeding animal. I would geld him, because he will likely also suffer major issues as he gets older. A well-bred animal should have both health and conformation preserved.
Saying this as nicely as I can, I say he would be no value to owners of minis. He could certainly produce a foal too large for a mini mare and could easily transmit the gene for dwarfism. I'd say his best potential would be as a smaller gelding.
dwarfism is actualy a flaw with minis. they CANNOT be registerd with the Miniature horse eassociation
Dwarfism[edit]
Dwarfism is a concern within the miniature horse world. Dwarf horses, while often setting world records for size, are not considered to have desirable traits, generally have incorrect conformation, and may have significant health and soundness issues.[8] Therefore, many miniature horse registries try to avoid accepting minis affected by dwarfism for breeding stock registration.[17] In 2014, a commercial DNA test became available for one set of dwarfism mutations. The four mutations of the ACAN gene are known to cause dwarfism or aborted fetuses in miniature horses. The test does not detect the mutations that cause skeletal atavism in miniature horses and some ponies, or the osteochondrodysplasia dwarfism seen in some horse breeds.[18]
Dwarfism is NOT something to be celebrated in horse breeding. It is a serious FLAW and while the dwarf horses may be cute, usually they have awful health and terrible conformation. Some can be half way ok, but NEVER okay enough to breed from. You don't get a miniature horse from a dwarf horse! Miniatures are HORSES but small. Not dwarfs!
I can't believe i have just read this thread!
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