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Approaching a moody mare in a stall (not your own)

This is a discussion on Approaching a moody mare in a stall (not your own) within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Mareina 2
  • How does a ten year old girl care for a horse

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    04-29-2012, 12:08 AM
  #11
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyseternalangel    
I know I'm going to step on a few toes, but that's how I feel NH training does to people.. makes them think that they can take any horse, play with it and suddenly it's trained.

If she's serious about training, have her intern with a riding instructor, watch lessons and see if she can pick out the difference before the instructor says the correct.. and after.
Great point, thanks!

Quote:
Encourage her to learn about how horses communicate, the signs of a happy horse, and MOST importantly, the signs the horse is asserting dominance and is about to strike out.
She's been learning a lot about horse behaviour, she's very interested in this. She says can actually pick up if horses are tense or unhappy by watching them. The problem right now is that I am not as confident in my horse psychology skills, so I can't say if she's correct. But there have been instances where she said something to me (about a horse being unhappy) and then an experienced person confirmed this as well.

Quote:
Take her to some trainers and have her watch their sessions in person or even just talk to her about training and how dangerous it can be and how important it is to have a lot of experience.

Or have her take some ground work lessons so she can learn. But encourage her to stay in riding lessons, and to not train until she's much more older and experienced.
We are going to attend a NH clinic in a couple of weeks, so she's super excited. We are also trying to arrange monthly groud work lessons. We almost switched to ground work entirely, as her Barn #1 wasn't working out and she felt frustrated, but then we were lucky to find Barn #2, where she's very happy. I was told it is better to develop a good seat now and learn to ride well, before diving into NH.

Quote:

At least then she knows more about the reality of it.
And if you do happen to stumble across any of my posts about how I trained my horse, let her know that I did it with HELP. I took lessons and I educated myself and I didn't do something that I had no clue about. Because otherwise with all due honesty I wouldn't be writing this right now.. I wouldn't be alive.
I will look for your posts, thanks!

Quote:
Also as much as I like Rick Gore, I would make sure that she takes his "training advice" lightly. HE has over 50 years of experience with horses. She just started. Very big difference.
I agree, yes. So much of what he does seems like magic, and I guess this kind of "magic" comes from years and years of experience. I still think it is good for her to watch his segments. I just have to remind her that even if someone were to do what Rick Gore does, the results might not be quite the same!

Quote:
I've been riding for around 8 years.. all 6 of those years were terrible lessons where I learned bad habits.. the past 2 years I had proper lessons and volunteered at a barn and learned how to "read" horses (their body language.) Then the barn owner taught me how to lunge, how to handle on the ground, and then how to ride greenies. That was extremely poor of her to stick a beginner on a green horse.. but somehow I worked and managed to train quite a few horses. Then I took lessons at TWO different barns on riding and ground work so I could work with my green personal horse.

But again.. I could have been seriously hurt. Horses aren't puppies.. they will hurt you intentionally or unintentionally.
It takes a lot of time and a lot of help from various people to learn about horses. I think I shouldn't trust her as much. She knows about horses so much more than I do, and has a great afinity for horses, so I lose my guard and think that she has some kind of sense, especially when I see her confidence with horses. I have to remember that she's still such a beginner and a child, even if she is quite knowledgeable for a beginner.

I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me here.
     
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    04-29-2012, 01:09 AM
  #12
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by horselessmom    

I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me here.
You're most welcome :)

You are free to message me whenever you like if you need help with anything or have questions.
     
    04-29-2012, 01:09 AM
  #13
Super Moderator
I agree wholeheartedly with Claporte.

I love the sound of that place, and it sounds like a real gem. But the thing with Nat. Horsemanship excersizes, for them to be successful, the horse must be convinced of the authority of the handler. Many horses are real "get along" animals and will accept pretty much any decent leadership, and if they don't accept it, they will just blow it off.

But, a horse that is insecure, such as this defensive mare, in a confined place, would not likely accept the leadership of a ten year old. This could not only be dangerous, but could be upsetting to one learning NH in the early stages.

Really, you can get ideas from those videos by the NH gurus, but unless you have some hands on training, you will not have the timing and eye to apply it.

Why don't you find a Parelli instructor and get some lessons?

As for the pony, be sure she does not reach her head OVER the ponies head while doing this., she could have a broken nose or jaw if the pony suddenly lifted it's head.

;you are a good mom to let her take these calculated risks, but check it out here, too.
We welcome you and any questions you might have. When you daughter is 13, she can join.
     
    04-29-2012, 01:38 AM
  #14
Weanling
If your daughter's willing to take a short video of the horse from a safe zone, with the owner's approval, maybe we can see what's going on.

It sounds like your daughter is very empathic, that's a gift and makes for great trainers. I hope she can find some good mentors to help her nurture her inherent abilities.

For most viewers, watching videos, reading books, buying DVDs, about what's been coined natural horsemanship to work with horses in real life is like trying to learn how to ride a bicycle by watching somebody else :( Like tinyliny says, you don't get the timing, the eye. I'll add to that, if I may, you don't get the feel.
     
    04-29-2012, 11:03 AM
  #15
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyseternalangel    
You're most welcome :)

You are free to message me whenever you like if you need help with anything or have questions.
Thank you!
     
    04-29-2012, 11:07 AM
  #16
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyliny    
I agree wholeheartedly with Claporte.

I love the sound of that place, and it sounds like a real gem. But the thing with Nat. Horsemanship excersizes, for them to be successful, the horse must be convinced of the authority of the handler. Many horses are real "get along" animals and will accept pretty much any decent leadership, and if they don't accept it, they will just blow it off.

But, a horse that is insecure, such as this defensive mare, in a confined place, would not likely accept the leadership of a ten year old. This could not only be dangerous, but could be upsetting to one learning NH in the early stages.

Really, you can get ideas from those videos by the NH gurus, but unless you have some hands on training, you will not have the timing and eye to apply it.

Why don't you find a Parelli instructor and get some lessons?

As for the pony, be sure she does not reach her head OVER the ponies head while doing this., she could have a broken nose or jaw if the pony suddenly lifted it's head.

;you are a good mom to let her take these calculated risks, but check it out here, too.
We welcome you and any questions you might have. When you daughter is 13, she can join.
Thank you, these are all excellent points, and even I brought some of them to her--that being in a confined place changes the dynamics dramatically.

If all goes well, she will have some groundwork lessons with a Parelli instructor this summer, she can't wait.

Thank you for the tip not to reach over the pony's head. I will tell her. I haven't seen her do it yet. This is exactly why having someone nearby is so necessary--if she were not doing it safely, it would've taken a 5 second correction and explanation, that would've stuck. When she's getting this from books or videos, neither her nor I could be picking up on those things.
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    04-29-2012, 11:11 AM
  #17
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRichmond    
If your daughter's willing to take a short video of the horse from a safe zone, with the owner's approval, maybe we can see what's going on.

It sounds like your daughter is very empathic, that's a gift and makes for great trainers. I hope she can find some good mentors to help her nurture her inherent abilities.

For most viewers, watching videos, reading books, buying DVDs, about what's been coined natural horsemanship to work with horses in real life is like trying to learn how to ride a bicycle by watching somebody else :( Like tinyliny says, you don't get the timing, the eye. I'll add to that, if I may, you don't get the feel.
I love this idea! Thank you! We will see whether we can take a video next weekend.

That's true for any instructional video--it only takes you that far, exposes you to the ideas, but the core of it has to be learned from the actual experts, in person.

I have to remind her of this difference, that she's learning the ideas only, not the practical part.
     
    04-29-2012, 12:10 PM
  #18
Trained
Ah, the wonders of 10 year old girls -- they can save the world! Unfortunately, she is 10. Period. She does not have the experience necessary to work with this mare. She doesn't have the horse experience, she doesn't have the world experience. She's 10, she's immortal and because her intentions are good everything will turn up rainbows. At least, in her mind.

It's so great that you are supporting your daughter and finding advice, but she wants to go too far too fast. She has limited experiences with horses period. Let her continue to work with more predictable horses, both on the ground and in saddle. Even the calmest horse will have a day, and every horse can learn something new. Let her learn with those for a few years yet.
     
    04-29-2012, 12:42 PM
  #19
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernMama    
Ah, the wonders of 10 year old girls -- they can save the world! Unfortunately, she is 10. Period. She does not have the experience necessary to work with this mare. She doesn't have the horse experience, she doesn't have the world experience. She's 10, she's immortal and because her intentions are good everything will turn up rainbows. At least, in her mind.

It's so great that you are supporting your daughter and finding advice, but she wants to go too far too fast. She has limited experiences with horses period. Let her continue to work with more predictable horses, both on the ground and in saddle. Even the calmest horse will have a day, and every horse can learn something new. Let her learn with those for a few years yet.
We had a talk this morning, and she took it all really well.

She said she will watch how the owner handles the horse, and ask questions.

So far so good! Thank you, all!
     
    04-29-2012, 12:50 PM
  #20
Yearling
This is an interesting question. On the one hand, it's a safe assumption that correcting a horse's undesirable behavior as we commonly think of doing it is best left for adults. A lot of these techniques require extensive experience and judgment to implement successfully. Certainly not for a child to be trying.

On the other hand, if the girl has an interest in horses you don't want to discourage it or plant fears in her that she doesn't need to have. I sometimes think that we experienced horse people can be the worst when it comes to that. We know too much about what can happen for our own good.

The best compromise may indeed be to find an experienced teacher with whom you and your daughter really click, so that things are gone about as safely as is possible. There are different styles of instruction out there so you really have your pick of the litter as far as instructors go. As for Rick Gore, Pat Parelli, myself, and the rest of the guys, it's important to keep in mind that we're all grown men. The things we do, a 10 year-old should not necessarily try to do. A 10 year-old needs a horse that will take care of her and won't over-react to the things that a kid is apt to do. This is a proven formula for success that is pretty much universally accepted. It's not that a child couldn't do something with a more difficult horse, but it becomes a question of how well she 'bounces' if you get my drift. ;)

Btw, small correction: Rick Gore isn't even 50 years old lol. :P
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