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Bits or No bits

This is a discussion on Bits or No bits within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        01-30-2014, 03:31 PM
      #101
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by madyasmkey    
    I take back my 2nd and 3rd comment because I was wrong. Joining up was just my opinion that I put in probably the worst way I could have and from what I know of Hackamores, they aren't nice at all but that is mainly from stories only a couple of times I have seen Hackamores being used in person and had horrible results.
    And that's what we are trying to get across --> You have very limited experience.

    You can't come on here and say all hackamores are horrible "just because ". There are many people on these boards who only ride in a hackamore. When you come and say all hackamores are horrible, you are saying that they are a horrible rider/person for using them. This is why your posts haven't exactly been met with open arms. You are basing your opinions off of very limited experience and not even fully knowing how a hackmore works. And you are using very large generalizations.

    Try thinking about other people for a change. Think about how their riding may be different from yours.

    Just because it is different, doesn't mean it is wrong.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by madyasmkey    
    See and in England, all riding is on the bit and anything that happens you are taught to correct by asking for an outline (I don't do that though) . I probably should have made it more clear my thoughts aren't on Western riding because I know most Western riders are very good, more english because it's constantly on the bit and it's all about looking pretty. Also the reason I stopped biting was because my instructor wanted me to seesaw her mouth to get her off the forehand. I hated it. And it didn't even work for more than 3 strides.
    See? Again, you are being judgemental of ALL people who ride with contact on the reins because you have ONE bad incident. (And from the sounds of it, you were asking for contact incorrectly.) How about you have an open mind and maybe go take lessons again from a different instructor, so you can learn to ride with contact on the bit properly?

    When it is done correctly, riding with contact can be a beautiful thing to see and enjoy.

         
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        01-30-2014, 03:39 PM
      #102
    Foal
    OP, I will say this, it does seem that you are learning here and starting to "accept" others opinions and advice -- not, of course, that all of our advice is worth listening to...

    I applaud you for that. When you first started posting, I and many others, saw your attitude as a bit brash and argumentative, or worse. However, in reading your responses in this thread(the last few), and in your "becoming a trainer" thread, it does seem that you have taken a step back and realized that NONE of us have ALL the answers. You have taken a large amount of criticism and learned from it(at least I think you have) and this will certainly help you become a better horseman/person/whatever in the future.

    It isn't wrong to have or even express your opinion. But, the way in which you choose to express it and interact with others is very important.

    And, lastly, it is always(used this word for a bit of humor..) better to avoid lumping an instrument, technique, method, style, etc. into a blanket statement; I.e. - "..bits are cruel..."
    smrobs, bsms, Kyla815 and 2 others like this.
         
        01-30-2014, 03:39 PM
      #103
    Weanling
    Yes Totilas wirks nicely, but he does not look happy. I get a very effective outline of of her. I love doing dressage more now than I used to. Thought I'd share I've ridden his half brother too (it was amazing) yes he was in a bit and I was very light on the hand, however he didn't look happy. He didn't seem to know that he could gallop with a rider too. I love riding, I just think constant contact doesn't do a horse any good.
         
        01-30-2014, 03:46 PM
      #104
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    he was in a bit and I was very light on the hand, however he didn't look happy
    to do dressage(higher levels especially) the horse needs to really concentrate, and thus will not necessarily look happy. Watch dancers or gymnasts doing an intricate move that involves a lot of strength, flexibility and concentration. Do they have a happy grin on their faces? Virtually never, and if they are smiling is just a false smile for show. They usually look quite serious. A high level dressage horse is the same.
    beau159 and picup436 like this.
         
        01-30-2014, 03:53 PM
      #105
    Weanling
    I don't mean happy by their expression, by how tight they are. Show jumoers snd race horses usually look like they're hsving a ball. Also gymnasts have a choice to do iv things so if they don't look happy they'll still say afterwards that tgey enjoyed it ect... whereas a horse cannot.
         
        01-30-2014, 05:07 PM
      #106
    Started
    OP, not all results from hackamores are horrible... Again, equipment is only as harsh as the hands of the rider make it.

    My old mare that I first learnt to ride on, would pull and tug and just generally go horribly in a snaffle, I changed to a rubber mullen mouth and she was happy, but then I got given a hackamore to try, and you know what? I show jumped her in that, she went beautifully and started responding to my seat position rather than my reins, which meant there was no more tugging and pulling on the face. I hardly had to touch those reins, and when I did it was very lightly.
    I went back to a bit so I could legally compete her in an A&P show.... First ride, she threw me off and broke my ribs.

    Moral here, every horse is different, and pieces of equipment are only as cruel as you make them. The two thoroughbreds I have now will not ever be happy bitless, but they do just fine in french links.
    bsms and KigerQueen like this.
         
        01-30-2014, 05:14 PM
      #107
    Weanling
    I literally just said that the Hackamores I have known to be used have caused problems, ill fitting, used wrong or not logged after properly I don't know but they caused issue, probably due to the rider. Also, I think there are different kinds of Hackamores. Plus bitless can be done at high levels including the Olympics.
         
        01-30-2014, 05:51 PM
      #108
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by madyasmkey    
    If you are willing to put the time in to train a horse to ride in a bit so responsively why not spend that time on not putting a bit in their mouths.

    Everyone seems to just read the bit they don't like about my post and then reply but I said all horses are different and work in didn't ways. If a horse leafs well and doesn't evade the head collar then they will ride bitless just as well. The responsive they are on the ground the less you use your lead rope, right? Same goes for riding if you're willing to put the time and effort in to train the with a bit, try putting the same time and effort without a bit.

    Of cause no-one ever will because bits are too strongly placed in the equine world when they shouldn't be. Horses are not designed to have anything but food and water in their mouths.

    I do ride others horses in bits and don't get me wrong, they work well but they would work just as well or better without a bit.

    Also, my horse was just an example, I know many horses I have backed and trained that work better bitless.

    I hadn't really looked up on the straight bar but just from looking at it I'd say it's the kindest, but I don't know much about that.

    Again, all horses are different and given the chance I still think MOST would work much happier without a chunk of metal in their moths. Also, most horses I have known to finish their career in showjumping, barrel racing and other fast working competitions have permanently bruised mouths. Not saying you do that to your house, but people get bruises from leaning on their legs for too long and bits are known, even when not doing anything, to making their tongues go numb and can take hours to get the feel back. Everything about bits are not designed for the comfort of the horse.
    OK, have to ask....where have you done your research and studies to show that horses end up with all these mouth problems you talk about?

    And everything you have said is your opinion.....not based on fact.

    And for the bold....if you are having problems riding a horse with a bit....man that's on YOU and YOUR skills or lack thereof, and not the bit.
    jumanji321 likes this.
         
        01-30-2014, 05:58 PM
      #109
    Started
    They might be able to do the movements bitless, but they can't compete at the Olympics bitless unless it's showjumping. I have never heard of a dressage competition at any level that allows you to go bitless.
    speedy da fish likes this.
         
        01-30-2014, 06:02 PM
      #110
    Green Broke
    ^Exactly. I posted the USEF rules for Dressage on another page.
    jumanji321 and KigerQueen like this.
         

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