Clicker Training?
 
 

       The Horse Forum > Training Horses > Natural Horsemanship

Clicker Training?

This is a discussion on Clicker Training? within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Benefits of clicker training horse
  • Powered by myBB dog training book

Like Tree38Likes

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
    05-06-2012, 10:31 PM
  #1
Green Broke
Clicker Training?

Im trying to decide what training method I want to use with my two year old. I was originally thinking Parelli/CA.. but I've been doing some research on clicker training and I was thinking Jovie has the curious playful personality it might work for her....

But has anyone tried it.. or use it?? Opinions/Suggestions.
     
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
    05-06-2012, 10:59 PM
  #2
Trained
I think clicker training/ positive reinforcement training works well for trick training and not much else. I would check out some of CA gaining respect and control on the ground, round penning, and colt starting.
     
    05-06-2012, 11:03 PM
  #3
Yearling
I just ordered a clicker, actually. For trick training - bowing, picking things up, nodding, rearing on command, laying down, touching things with nose - it is supposed to work absolutely amazing. People swear by it. I guess it would probably be harder to use just training to pivot in saddle, or any work in saddle, but I don't see why it couldn't be done. There are some vieos about it floating around I'm sure you could find.
     
    05-06-2012, 11:20 PM
  #4
Foal
I work with dogs and can't say enough amazing things about clicker training. It's a common misconception that clicker work is only good for basic manners, handling, or tricks (and it is excellent for these things). But I can tell you that I've used clicker training to treat dog-dog/dog-human aggression in dogs with fantastic results. The possibilities with a clicker are truly endless.

Clicker training started with sea mammals a few decades ago, and caught on with horses about 20 years before it ever became popular with dogs (fairly recently). If you're curious about it I would get my hands on anything by Karen Pryor, and particularly "Don't Shoot the Dog!" Don't let the title fool you, the book isn't about dog training. It's all about how we use reinforcers in our every day lives (i.e. Work relationships, personal relationships, parenting, etc.). It's fascinating and eye-opening.

I know that horse training is somewhat traditional. I see a lot of corrections-based methods described in posts, and while I don't claim to know anything about horse training, I am 100% sure that all mammals (humans included) learn the same way - with reinforcers. The four quadrants of the learning theory are (and I'm going to get really geeky here):

Positive Reinforcement: Rewarding good behaviours (clicker training applies here).
Negative Reinforcement: Removing a punisher (anything the horse doesn't like) when the desired behaviour has been achieved.
Positive Punishment: Applying a punisher to eradicate an unwanted behaviour (anything from an ear pinch all the way to abuse).
Negative Punishment: Removing something the horse does like (i.e. Treats, attention, etc.) when they display unwanted behaviours.

Once you understand what these quadrants are, and how to use them in everyday training, the possibilities are endless. With dogs, I use primarily positive reinforcement and negative punishment. Most of the methods I see described on this forum fall under Negative Reinforcement and Positive Punishment, with a fair bit of the other two quadrants mixed in. All of my training is force-free and I believe this can work with horses just as well. It already has been for decades. Can't wait to get my hands dirty with clicker training and horses!

EDIT: I'm not arguing what's right and wrong with this post. I definitely don't claim to know any better than those who have been riding and training their whole lives. I'm just trying to explain the science behind how animals learn, and how we can use this in our relationships with horses.
     
    05-08-2012, 02:34 PM
  #5
Foal
Hi HorsesAreForever,

Positive reinforcement training (with a clicker or without) is a great way to train all behavior that you would train a horse to do with the more traditional pressure/release methods. In either case you are using a reinforcer but with the clicker training you are choosing to add something to the equation that has a reinforcing value to your horse. With P/R you are adding an aversive(pressure) and the removal of the aversive(release) is what reinforces the behavior. So one way is adding(+ reinforcement)and the other is removing(- reinforcement) but all behavior is trained through reinforcement of one kind or another. With clicker training you are putting something in the training equation that your horse enjoys and this helps him to become invested in the outcome. The principles behind the training are at work whether we are aware of it or not. With a basic understanding of these principles you can become a more effective trainer and communicator. It is not complicated, is highly effective and the best part is it is not confrontational. You may also add it to whatever you are currently using as part of your training or you may use it by itself. From the get go you establish mutual respect and good manners. All work done with horses can be enhanced by using positive reinforcement as part of the equation. Everything from ground work, trailer loading, vet procedures, backing and under saddle work. Clicker training has been used successfully with everyone from the backyard enthusiast, pony clubs to Olympic Medalists in show jumping and dressage. I actually started my "clicker" training business (back in 1994) with two time Olympic Medalist Beezie Madden. You will be amazed at the trust and respect that result. Here are a couple of a links to more info if you are interested in learning more. If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask. In any case good luck with your young horse. :0)

First link: On Target Training with Shawna Karrasch

The second link takes you to a video clip that is just fun to watch:
Clicker Trained Horse Remembers After 7 Years! : On Target Training with Shawna Karrasch
loosie, spookychick13 and Meatos like this.
     
    05-08-2012, 05:29 PM
  #6
Green Broke
Thank you so much for the replies! I think im going to start her with it next week! Meatos, and Shawna very helpful responses thank you! Shawna I just messaged you!!
shawnakarrasch likes this.
     
    05-10-2012, 05:24 AM
  #7
Trained
Agree with Meatos & Shawna above.... although Shawna you made me think for a second about the "P/R you are adding an aversive..." because I read 'P/R' as positive reinforcement!

I don't get Gypsygirl's attitude that it can only be used to teach tricks - why do you think that Gypsy? Tho I guess you could look on anything as a trick really - like moving on cue in any given way, standing for mounting, standing tied, bridling, hoof care, floating, being ridden happily, going 'on the bit', flying changes, getting used to 'scaries'.... etc.

Using a plastic clicker & food treats can definitely be classed as a 'method' of training, but IME the principles behind the method are extremely valuable to understand regardless of the 'method' you choose to use. For eg. Understanding the 'laws of learning' will also enable you to be more effective with negative reinforcement(release of pressure) too.

There are those who use purely positive reinforcement & don't believe in any aversives whatsoever. I personally don't think there's anything wrong with well timed & appropriate negative reinforcement & find it difficult to think of training or riding a horse without it. I just use a lot of positive reinforcement/reward in conjunction with other 'methods'.

I also don't use a plastic clicker, just my voice as a bridging signal, but I do think using a clicker(or other similar noise maker) is a great way of starting off, because it's a short, sharp, unique sound that makes it clearer, and I reckon it's a great training tool for the trainer too!
     
    05-10-2012, 06:43 AM
  #8
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatos    
Once you understand what these quadrants are, and how to use them in everyday training, the possibilities are endless. With dogs, I use primarily positive reinforcement and negative punishment. Most of the methods I see described on this forum fall under Negative Reinforcement and Positive Punishment, with a fair bit of the other two quadrants mixed in. All of my training is force-free and I believe this can work with horses just as well.
I agree with this and the other posts. Like loosie, I use my voice instead of a clicker, but I'm sure the effect is the same. Over the years, I've found that positive reinforcement/negative punishment produces a much longer lasting result overall than negative reinforcement/positive punishment (there are times, of course, that a quick smack on the shoulder is necessary). To be honest, working a horse in a roundpen for an hour to correct some behavior seems to provide (IMHO) more benefit to the owner as a way to relieve frustration and exert dominance than any benefit it provides to the horse's training.
     
    05-10-2012, 09:01 AM
  #9
Green Broke
So I tried doing the bridging conditioning.. and it had her ALLL over her me she couldnt focus on anything other then she NEEDED the treat.. even if I pushed her head away and waited a second and clicked then treated she would keep her head and mouthing me the whole time unless I pushed her head away from me.. so after a while I put her on cross ties to groom her to let her chill out because she was getting so excited about the food I wanted her to relax..

Not sure where do go with that..?
     
    05-10-2012, 09:09 AM
  #10
Showing
If she's too much with the treats, try petting/scratching her hiney as a positive reinforcement.

It'll take awhile to train her not to mouth you for treats. There was a video that Shawn Karrasch had about introducing a horse to the clicker with a little bucket of feed and she went over what to do if he got too excited about the food rather than the actual clicker training.

Wish I could find it for you..
shawnakarrasch likes this.
     

Quick Reply
Please help keep the Horse Forum enjoyable by reporting rude posts.
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Clicker training Fellpony Horse Training 3 09-21-2011 11:37 AM
clicker training? MarleyandEllie Horse Training 18 11-29-2010 05:02 AM
Clicker Training? whitetrashwarmblood Horse Training 1 11-11-2009 07:11 PM
Clicker training! O.o Wallaby Horse Training 1 10-02-2009 11:47 PM
Clicker Training??? BluMagic Horse Training 4 01-21-2008 03:07 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0