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Clinton Anderson background?

This is a discussion on Clinton Anderson background? within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        03-16-2014, 06:37 PM
      #11
    Yearling
    Many years ago I heard that, too.
         
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        03-16-2014, 06:45 PM
      #12
    Trained
    The only thing that I DON'T like about CA is the flexing. I see a purpose in some of it, but at some point my horse needs to point his head in the direction I want to go.
    The more I read through his book, the more I like how it makes sense to people new to horses. I taught people new to horses (1985-1994) and they do not understand collection, lateral bend, etc. Apparently, judging from a new horse owner I met last week, some teachers don't even teach transitions between gaits--although I did.
    I like how CA balances putting the human in control with stopping the session when the horse has understand the concept. We can discipline ourselves to practice piano for 3 hours/day, but it does no good to train new things to your horse this way.
    The thing that I dislike about Parelli is the pretence that your horse is just a big dog. MY dogs live in my house and I demand that they move when in my way and they are eager to please me. The dogs want to sit on my feet and lean on my leg demanding petting. They also sleep in my room at night and wake up whenever I start to leave the bed. Haven't met a horse yet that wants to do this. Even my Arabian would just say hello, then go about his business, and EVERYONE knew that "Corporal" was my horse bc of his display of affection.
    Game playing does not compute with a horse. A horse wants to knew where he stands in the pecking order. Once he learns a job, he wants to do his job. Period. Playtime is for one horse to play with another horse. It always bothered me when I saw Steve Irwin play with his zoo animals, like the time he was playing with a young but LARGE camel. These animals are too big and you might as well be a little girl boxing with a National Champion. =/
    I think that may have led to his demise by being waaaayyy to close to the stingray that nailed him. Such an unneccessary loss, but people still like to "play" with their large or exotic animals in dangerous ways. You can get seriously hurt like this, and I think the Parelli's have contributed to horse accidents.
    OP, I think if you pick up a copy of CA's book:
    Clinton Anderson's Downunder Horsemanship: Establishing Respect and Control for English and Western Riders: Clinton Anderson, Ami Hendrickson: 9781570762840: Amazon.com: Books
    You will find it useful. I have, and I just recently got one. =D
    MinervaELS likes this.
         
        03-16-2014, 09:18 PM
      #13
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Corporal    
    The thing that I dislike about Parelli is the pretence that your horse is just a big dog. MY dogs live in my house...
    I don't get the relevance of where your dogs live or that they of course relate differently to a horse. I never got the idea that Parelli treated horses like big dogs at all(have seen him dealing with his dogs once & wasn't impressed... beside the point...) but I disagree with your premise of not playing with a horse, so perhaps that's the difference.

    If you're referring to Parelli calling stuff 'games' rather than 'exercises or work', I think the *principle* of this is very much for the *human mindset* as much as for the horse. I am personally into horses because I enjoy their company & what I can do with them. So to me, it's play/recreation & IMO while you need to be a good leader & the horse should be well trained to do as you ask anyway, I also want my company to be 'recreation' for my horse. Be that whether riding, doing tricks or otherwise.

    Quote:
    The dogs want to sit on my feet and lean on my leg demanding petting.
    Haven't seen Parelli allow a horse to do that! I personally don't like dogs to do that either.

    Quote:
    Game playing does not compute with a horse. A horse wants to knew where he stands in the pecking order. Once he learns a job, he wants to do his job. Period. Playtime is for one horse to play with another horse.
    That I disagree thoroughly with. Of course, with a large or small animal, they 'play' very differently & need to learn 'manners' to be safe, as do the handlers need to understand & keep safety in mind.

    Quote:
    It always bothered me when I saw Steve Irwin play with his zoo animals, ..."play" with their large or exotic animals in dangerous ways. You can get seriously hurt like this, and I think the Parelli's have contributed to horse accidents.
    Steve Irwin... there's one that never grew up! Then no doubt you have no time for Kevin Richardson - that must make you go cold!

    I think there will always be people who want to play with animals, just like there are people who think of everything their horse does as 'work/a job'. I don't know what the figures are, but I'd be willing to bet the stats on injuries while playing v's 'working' wouldn't be that different. There will always be people who play/work with horses in a dangerous, careless, ignorant manner & anyone who can teach people how to 'play safer' is helping rather than hindering IMO.
    updownrider likes this.
         
        03-16-2014, 09:23 PM
      #14
    Trained
    Obviously the OP is a Parelli can and not a CA fan :)

    I don't think they're similar at all. From my experience, I've seen and come across more horses turned dangerous by people following Parelli than by people following CA. Parelli focuses so much on the "game" and doesn't really teach the theory behind the game very well, so I find people are just trying to play the "game" without really understanding what it's supposed to be doing. I don't think their system educates on equine body language very well either.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    Corporal and MinervaELS like this.
         
        03-16-2014, 09:38 PM
      #15
    Weanling
    The thing about both of them is that they take very basic concepts of horsemanship, and then marketed it as their own. The OP commented on another thread about how Parelli had a game just like the CA cruising method. Well, neither of them invented it. But the marketing was so effective that we assume that he took it from Parelli, when in fact he used a popular exercise older than both of them, named it something catchy and voila! It's 'his' method now. All famous trainers do it. Dorrance didn't invent feel- he marketed it. There is nothing new about any of these trainers- they just know how to sell the techniques. John Lyons didn't event conditioned response methods- he sold them. Monty Roberts didn't invent join up either. All of these things have been done over and over, but every time they are marketed to us with a different name, we crown the clinician the newest genius.
    loosie and anndankev like this.
         
        03-16-2014, 09:44 PM
      #16
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DancingArabian    
    Obviously the OP is a Parelli can and not a CA fan :)
    Not at all actually. FYI I was on the 'Parelli bandwagon', many years ago, but wouldn't call myself a fan at all now(tho I do still have respect for most of the basic *principles* he originally taught), don't know much of what they've done in the last 10-15 years, & what I do know of I actually generally dislike. I've heard people rave about CA but haven't bothered to learn much about him, just as already said, that what I have seen was very 'Parelli' looking to me. I thought as he's obviously one of the Big Jobs these days, I should learn more about him. Have downloaded a couple of youtube vids to watch... tho I got hung up on JF Pignon again(Corporal, I guess your opinion of him too...), who happened to come up & haven't watched the CA ones yet!
         
        03-16-2014, 10:34 PM
      #17
    Foal
    Interesting thread.

    Beginners have got to start somewhere and since Parelli and Anderson both have well illustrated training and lots of resources out there and teach some basic principles, that's why I think so manly people gravitate to them.

    I've looked at both of them and picked up bits and pieces, but parelli I just didn't get to work for me ( Of course I'm very aware this could have been my problem).

    I didn't like how both of them marketed all their stuff. I guess if their succesful and doing well though, they must have done something right.
    loosie and KigerQueen like this.
         
        03-16-2014, 10:36 PM
      #18
    Started
    I have dealt with a "trainer" who uses CA's methods. The thing I don't like about either CA or this trainer is they can be harsh in their corrections. Ca is better but I watched this lady back a horse and whack him so much in the chest is was missing the fur. I have seen fear in some of the horses he has worked and this trainer works. Sometimes its borderline abuse with that "trainer".

    I also know another trainer who had amazing success with his methods and raised a sweet, calm Morab. She could be "the man from snowy river's" stunt double with some of the riding she does with this mare. I have used some of his stuff and it works.
    I don't like PNH at all. I have seen a few horses trained this way. They have all been pushy bratty horses who thought EVERYTHING was a game. One mare decided she was done "playing" and put her owner in the hospital from the hissy fit that ensued. Games are fun but work is work, and horses are smart animals. If they think everything is a game, they won't want to work, Just like children. Would I play some of the games with my mare? Yeah if we where just goofing off in the arena, but that would be for fun, not work.
         
        03-16-2014, 11:04 PM
      #19
    Trained
    I like CA more than Parelli for my horse, but my horse really LOVES the yo-yo game and is pretty advanced with it. I can send him away from me in the pasture, even control whether he walks away or rockets away and call him back. I can tell be likes it because when I send him off he stands and looks at me waiting for me to call him back.
    Posted via Mobile Device
         
        03-16-2014, 11:25 PM
      #20
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by EquineObsessed    
    how Parelli had a game just like the CA cruising method. Well, neither of them invented it. But the marketing was so effective that we assume
    Yeah, I definitely get that. Parelli used to make a point of saying(don't know if he still does) that he never invented any of it, that he was just excited about it & wanted to share it. Monty Roberts is the only one I've ever heard who has claimed something like 'inventing the language of equus'. I just had it in my mind that CA did indeed train under PP & since what I'd seen went along with that, just haven't looked into him further.

    Quote:
    They have all been pushy bratty horses who thought EVERYTHING was a game. One mare decided she was done "playing" and put her owner in the hospital from the hissy fit that ensued. Games are fun but work is work, and horses are smart animals. If they think everything is a game, they won't want to work, Just like children.
    Yes, in my job I encounter many pushy, 'bratty' horses & some of them are owned by 'Parelli-ites'(or Parelliitis sufferers). There are ditzy or ineffectual owners whatever their learning base, but generally I find owners who have taught their horses good basic groundwork - whether the lable is 'games' or 'tasks' - are much easier to handle.

    Last sentence above, but you can make your ideas theirs & eat the cake too I strive to make everything possible enjoyable for the horse - a game, in principle. I also find that when there are 'tasks' to do, it doesn't in the least mean they're less likely to want to - on the contrary, I think they're more inclined to want to go along with it, because generally what you do with them is Fun, you are associated with Fun rather than Work.

    What I am getting(still haven't watched the vid but seen others doing 'CA Tasks') is that the major difference between 'Games' & 'Tasks' seems to be in the mindset of the doer. Seem to be basically the same exercises. I guess whatever the lable, whatever(well...) the mindset, the '7 Games' as I learned them are a broad, strong foundation to work from.
    KigerQueen likes this.
         

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