Clinton Anderson uses Rollkur :( - Page 2
   

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Clinton Anderson uses Rollkur :(

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    07-21-2011, 03:39 AM
  #11
Trained
I don't think you can call that rollkur. The horses mouth is closed and there is no pressure on the reins or on the horses mouth. I don't like how the horse is so over bent but I'm not a reiner. As far as loping his horse for 40 whole minutes without a rest being cruel, I must be the horse worlds version of Hitler because I ride my horses on hot or cold or rainy days for several hours without much of a break. They are conditioned and fed well (as I'm sure Clintons are ) but they have a job to do and we often can't stop until it is done.

Perhaps if you are looking at Mindy and seeing the kind of horse you would like to have you shouldn't be so quick to critisize how she came to be that horse.
     
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    07-21-2011, 08:47 AM
  #12
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinshorses    
I don't think you can call that rollkur. The horses mouth is closed and there is no pressure on the reins or on the horses mouth. I don't like how the horse is so over bent but I'm not a reiner. As far as loping his horse for 40 whole minutes without a rest being cruel, I must be the horse worlds version of Hitler because I ride my horses on hot or cold or rainy days for several hours without much of a break. They are conditioned and fed well (as I'm sure Clintons are ) but they have a job to do and we often can't stop until it is done.

Perhaps if you are looking at Mindy and seeing the kind of horse you would like to have you shouldn't be so quick to critisize how she came to be that horse.
Well said Kevin. Look at the last picture especially. The reins are hanging. I agree the horse is overbent, but my reining knowledge is limited, since I am a beginner. I have seen very similar stuff from several reining trainers, tho, and the horses learn to work on a totally loose rein, with extremely subtle cues. Very similar to dressage, without the contact. It really IS awesome when the horse is finished. Yeah-they work, but as Kevin said-they are used to it. That is what they do, every day, and that is their job. Just like some people have to work for a living too, and do manual labor. Is it cruel? No.
     
    07-21-2011, 08:56 AM
  #13
Started
Yes, very well said Kevin!
     
    07-21-2011, 09:05 AM
  #14
Banned
Great post, Kevin.

And if the OP wants to complain about horses looking over flexed in a photo why is she not complaining about franknbeans avatar photo?
(I have no issue with the photo, Frank, just pointing out that any photo can look like an over flexed horse.)
     
    07-21-2011, 09:34 AM
  #15
Yearling
Err, isn't hyperflexion typically the horse's chin "strapped" to its chest? Looks like in a few of the photos (can't see them all - work internet blocks some websites) he's flexing the horse's head laterally - these are exercises I do with my horse to get her softened up and yielding. A tip of the nose to the outside, breaking at the poll, etc. I can't see them all so I can't judge accurately, I suppose.

Also I know this is irrelevant, but doesn't this look like the horse is doing that infamous Hammertime dance?



Clinton Anderson... such a menace! (Hehe)

     
    07-21-2011, 09:36 AM
  #16
Started
Hahaha, it does!!
     
    07-21-2011, 09:43 AM
  #17
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Racer    
Since he's a Western rider and doesn't ride dressage, I'm not sure how he could be using rollkur.

I don't know anything about shock collars or what he does or doesn't promote, since I don't 'do' any of the NH gurus.

Yup, rollkur is just the "Dressage" term for a practice being used by most disciplines, these days. There was a big stink in the reining world with a world class trainer using it roughly in a European warm-up ring. WP trainers are using it a lot, too. It is simply pulling the horse's head into the chest to "stretch" the horse.


Kevin, many horses don't gape when pulled behind the vertical.

http://sustainabledressage.net/rollkur/schrijer.php

SAD!!
     
    07-21-2011, 09:53 AM
  #18
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilove    
Err, isn't hyperflexion typically the horse's chin "strapped" to its chest? Looks like in a few of the photos (can't see them all - work internet blocks some websites) he's flexing the horse's head laterally - these are exercises I do with my horse to get her softened up and yielding. A tip of the nose to the outside, breaking at the poll, etc. I can't see them all so I can't judge accurately, I suppose.
That is what I am seeing in these photos too. That is why I referenced Frank's photo, as that is what it looks like is going on there too.

It is funny the things people can spread when they want to simply hate a person.
     
    07-21-2011, 09:58 AM
  #19
Super Moderator
Equi,

Although some people have "strapped" a horse's head to the chest through a drawing device while longing, it is usually done while riding. The rider simply cranks back on the reins, pulling the horse's head into the chest.


BTW, Franks...isn't your horse backing up? I see no rollkur there. The horse is not being forced FORWARD with his head cranked in.
     
    07-21-2011, 10:01 AM
  #20
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allison Finch    
Equi,

Although some people have "strapped" a horse's head to the chest through a drawing device while longing, it is usually done while riding. The rider simply cranks back on the reins, pulling the horse's head into the chest.


BTW, Franks...isn't your horse backing up? I see no rollkur there. The horse is not being forced FORWARD with his head cranked in.
The photo of CA it looks to me like he is bending the horse left and right, not just cranking his nose into his chest.

The point with mentioning Frank's photo is that any photo can look like that. Not that I think that is what is going on there.
     

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