Clinton Anderson uses Rollkur :( - Page 2 - The Horse Forum

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post #11 of 251 Old 07-21-2011, 03:39 AM
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I don't think you can call that rollkur. The horses mouth is closed and there is no pressure on the reins or on the horses mouth. I don't like how the horse is so over bent but I'm not a reiner. As far as loping his horse for 40 whole minutes without a rest being cruel, I must be the horse worlds version of Hitler because I ride my horses on hot or cold or rainy days for several hours without much of a break. They are conditioned and fed well (as I'm sure Clintons are ) but they have a job to do and we often can't stop until it is done.

Perhaps if you are looking at Mindy and seeing the kind of horse you would like to have you shouldn't be so quick to critisize how she came to be that horse.

There's nothing like the Rockies in the springtime... Nothing like the freedom in the air... And there ain't nothing better than draggin calves to the fire and there's nothing like the smell of burning hair. -Brenn Hill
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post #12 of 251 Old 07-21-2011, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by kevinshorses View Post
I don't think you can call that rollkur. The horses mouth is closed and there is no pressure on the reins or on the horses mouth. I don't like how the horse is so over bent but I'm not a reiner. As far as loping his horse for 40 whole minutes without a rest being cruel, I must be the horse worlds version of Hitler because I ride my horses on hot or cold or rainy days for several hours without much of a break. They are conditioned and fed well (as I'm sure Clintons are ) but they have a job to do and we often can't stop until it is done.

Perhaps if you are looking at Mindy and seeing the kind of horse you would like to have you shouldn't be so quick to critisize how she came to be that horse.
Well said Kevin. Look at the last picture especially. The reins are hanging. I agree the horse is overbent, but my reining knowledge is limited, since I am a beginner. I have seen very similar stuff from several reining trainers, tho, and the horses learn to work on a totally loose rein, with extremely subtle cues. Very similar to dressage, without the contact. It really IS awesome when the horse is finished. Yeah-they work, but as Kevin said-they are used to it. That is what they do, every day, and that is their job. Just like some people have to work for a living too, and do manual labor. Is it cruel? No.

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post #13 of 251 Old 07-21-2011, 08:56 AM
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Yes, very well said Kevin!
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post #14 of 251 Old 07-21-2011, 09:05 AM
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Great post, Kevin.

And if the OP wants to complain about horses looking over flexed in a photo why is she not complaining about franknbeans avatar photo?
(I have no issue with the photo, Frank, just pointing out that any photo can look like an over flexed horse.)
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post #15 of 251 Old 07-21-2011, 09:34 AM
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Err, isn't hyperflexion typically the horse's chin "strapped" to its chest? Looks like in a few of the photos (can't see them all - work internet blocks some websites) he's flexing the horse's head laterally - these are exercises I do with my horse to get her softened up and yielding. A tip of the nose to the outside, breaking at the poll, etc. I can't see them all so I can't judge accurately, I suppose.

Also I know this is irrelevant, but doesn't this look like the horse is doing that infamous Hammertime dance?



Clinton Anderson... such a menace! (Hehe)



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post #16 of 251 Old 07-21-2011, 09:36 AM
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Hahaha, it does!!
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post #17 of 251 Old 07-21-2011, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Speed Racer View Post
Since he's a Western rider and doesn't ride dressage, I'm not sure how he could be using rollkur.

I don't know anything about shock collars or what he does or doesn't promote, since I don't 'do' any of the NH gurus.

Yup, rollkur is just the "Dressage" term for a practice being used by most disciplines, these days. There was a big stink in the reining world with a world class trainer using it roughly in a European warm-up ring. WP trainers are using it a lot, too. It is simply pulling the horse's head into the chest to "stretch" the horse.


Kevin, many horses don't gape when pulled behind the vertical.

http://sustainabledressage.net/rollkur/schrijer.php

SAD!!

Last edited by Allison Finch; 07-21-2011 at 09:55 AM.
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post #18 of 251 Old 07-21-2011, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Equilove View Post
Err, isn't hyperflexion typically the horse's chin "strapped" to its chest? Looks like in a few of the photos (can't see them all - work internet blocks some websites) he's flexing the horse's head laterally - these are exercises I do with my horse to get her softened up and yielding. A tip of the nose to the outside, breaking at the poll, etc. I can't see them all so I can't judge accurately, I suppose.
That is what I am seeing in these photos too. That is why I referenced Frank's photo, as that is what it looks like is going on there too.

It is funny the things people can spread when they want to simply hate a person.
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post #19 of 251 Old 07-21-2011, 09:58 AM
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Equi,

Although some people have "strapped" a horse's head to the chest through a drawing device while longing, it is usually done while riding. The rider simply cranks back on the reins, pulling the horse's head into the chest.


BTW, Franks...isn't your horse backing up? I see no rollkur there. The horse is not being forced FORWARD with his head cranked in.
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post #20 of 251 Old 07-21-2011, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Allison Finch View Post
Equi,

Although some people have "strapped" a horse's head to the chest through a drawing device while longing, it is usually done while riding. The rider simply cranks back on the reins, pulling the horse's head into the chest.


BTW, Franks...isn't your horse backing up? I see no rollkur there. The horse is not being forced FORWARD with his head cranked in.
The photo of CA it looks to me like he is bending the horse left and right, not just cranking his nose into his chest.

The point with mentioning Frank's photo is that any photo can look like that. Not that I think that is what is going on there.
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