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Considering NH?

This is a discussion on Considering NH? within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

     
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        10-09-2009, 10:08 PM
      #21
    Started
    You didn't get my sarcasm FGR ;)
         
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        10-09-2009, 10:14 PM
      #22
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FehrGroundRanch    
    Keep up with your open mind and you will be! :)
    Ditto to this...AND that goes to anyone, not just HAF! Sure PP is a fabulous horse trainer, but he is NOT all there is in this world who has DONE good for horses...he's not even one of the 'fathers' of NH, he like everyone else on here, was taught by other people at one point; yes, he branched off and did his own thing later on, but even he had to learn from other trainers in his life. I think we become narrow minded when we fail to see that sometimes other methods work, and other trainers are great too. There are millions of awesome horseman out there, who don't 'have a name for themselves' just because they simply love being around and working with horses...it shouldn't take being well known to prove you are one of the greats. The horses you train will speak for you anyway, more than people ever will.
         
        10-09-2009, 10:16 PM
      #23
    Yearling
    I have seen Clinton a couple of times, I have a lot of his dvds and his books, he is okay....IMO he is kinda cocky , when I saw him once do a colt starting demo he was rubbing the horse all over "human curry comb" and laying on the horses back , jumping up and down, laying across the horse etc...which was very productive but then he said if you can't jump up on your horse like this , you shouldnt be riding horses.....


    JMO ....but just because you can't jump up and laying across your horse , is that a reason not to ride?
         
        10-10-2009, 06:37 AM
      #24
    Weanling
    Ok, lets see if I can do this without rubbing anyone too terribly wrong. First of all, what is your goal with this horse? Many people say that they just want their horse to listen to them, they want their horse to be obedient, do what they ask without question, total loyalty and devotion. Some people say they just want their horse to love them and/or respect them. Some want top performance, they want an athletic machine that loves to show off its stuff. Ultimately, I don't think that I would be horribly wrong if I said that most people want all of those things. But here is a question for you, what does your horse want?
    After that question, many people would sing the praises of NH, which aren't entirely wrong, but I still have some questions. There are many things that we can get our horses to do out of a series of pressures and releases. Once the horse recognizes a person as a herd leader, then they will do all sorts of things. Here is the catch, a horse has to be about 90% lame before showing signs of it. It will contort its body in all sorts of ways just to get away from the pressure. So..... Just how healthy is it for all that disengagement when the horses axial rotation is so limited? Isn't our ultimate goal engagement? It turns into a pretty rapidly learned behavior, and the horse will compromise itself considerably just to do what is asked of it. Here is another question, why are we going to disable the horses power house by taking straightness out of the body? I have heard many times in the NH world "don't let this horse go straight, that will give the horse the power to do this, that or the other thing" Um, yeah, straightness gives the horse the power to do all sorts of things, so why are we going to disable that rather than learn how to control it properly? Or how about "when they buck, disengage their hind end" it does stop the bucking, and I would do it if I happened to be on a horse that was bucking, but if I had done my job properly, that horse wouldn't have the need to buck in the first place, it is only a temporary solution. NH works wonders on the mind, but many times the physical needs of the horse are left behind. It makes it easy for people to follow a program to get the results that they want, and they tell people that it is what the horse wants too. They keep people moving through the program with things such as "your horse will get bored if you keep doing the same thing". I'm sorry, but I do use my horses for work, every now and then they may have to stand around for a little bit, I have never seen one get bored. People get bored, horses in a sound frame of mind have no problem standing still as long as they feel safe and secure. Or my favorite, buy this contraption, your horse will love you for it, even though in reality, the horse is just relying completely on that because the rest of its body is incapable of holding itself properly.
    Don't worry, I won't forget about the other side here either. How about those performance horses? I have worked with some horses with price tags higher than my house, and those things were as obnoxious as they could be. Their bodies are in phenomenal shape, but many of them aren't even allowed to interact with herd for fear that they might get hurt. They also learn physical patterns, often times through some type of direct force, to get them to keep their head a certain way, jump this, move legs like that, but I know many of these people that don't even interact with their horses out of the saddle. IMO, that is not the ideal also.
    So here is my challenge to you, let your ultimate goal be the horses health. Every horse has a correct way of going, a biomechanical soundness that gives the horse optimal power, and you would be surprised that once you find what makes the horse healthy, the behavior problems seem to melt away. Does the mind need to be addressd? Yes, of course. I am not at all against using NH techniques to help find that mind, but I am against excessive use of this just to give the human the warm fuzzies. I had a horse come in less than a week ago with problems similar to what spirit horse describes. By day 4, the owners small children could handle him again. I never touched him harder than a light tap. Now, in less than a week, I'm moving on to making his body stronger, since this is actually what was originally causing the problems with his resentment towards his owners. Many horses issues are originally caused in the body, so why does NH spend so much time working around those issues? Many horse owners are led to believe that their horses problems are behavioral, preventative and corrective riding isn't something that most people even think of.
    So, my advice to the OP, let your ultimate goal be the overall well being of your horse. (sounds simple, right?) As a yearling, you do have time to work on the mind, but make sure that your work on the mind is not harming the body, especially such a young and fragile one. It is as much of a physical and mental necessity on your part as on the horses. This will require a lot more of your mind than watching DVDs, it will require you to watch your horse, understand its movement, understand its mental state, and move everything towards optimal. I personally don't care if my horse can push a giant ball or jump a 5' fence, I am actually more impressed by a horse that can move willingly with ease, grace, straightness, and impulsion. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
         
        10-10-2009, 08:34 AM
      #25
    Weanling
    My favorite NH trainer would be Pat Parelli as his methods are something that I can definitely see working with every horse and I use the methods on my 4...I use all of his methods on my one.
    I agree with HAF and SpiritHorse that I am not a fan of Clinton Anderson no matter how "popular" he is. IMO he is too aggressive to the horse and doesn't fully listen to what the horse is telling him. And as RadHenry said, he's too cocky!

    I'm sure there are many other good NH trainers I'm sure but PP is definitely my top favorite.

    As for saying that PP's methods are too soft...you want the horse to respond with as little pressure or effort possible...if you've ever seen a new student work getting a lession from one of their licenced trainers it's not all soft, there are some "wake up" calls, but proper warning is given before that ("If you don't pay attention......THIS will happen).
         
        10-10-2009, 08:09 PM
      #26
    Green Broke
    As many things I have tried and still play around with Parelli is one of the most fair to the horse that I've experienced. Even when I didnt do parelli for a while I STILL continued to use his phases 1-4 and in some cases went from 1 directly to 4 just because she was bring a stubborn LBI she is lol.

    But anyways lol Parelli is just more fair then any other methods I've tried.

    Pat doesnt say he invented most of the stuff he does he SAYS he learned if from a different trainer and even will take a few minutes to talk about them and how he admired them etc. He passes on what he learned from others in his program along with some stuff he learned from just playing with horses.
         
        10-11-2009, 03:44 PM
      #27
    Weanling
    I will be training a young rescue horse soon. What I have done is I have researched as many NH trainers I have heard of (Parelli, John Lyons, Jay Ojay,Clint Anderson, are a few that I can think of off the top of my head) I check them out on line and on utube. I take a little of everyone for what works for me and what will work for the horse. No one know everything about everything. One technique will work for one horse and not for another. Use what you feel comfortable with with your personality and your horses. Be consistent, clear, patient, repitious and run everything in your mind so you know what you want before you ask it from your horse. I don't think one trainer will have it all - they are just useing what works for them, and we can take it as a guide line.
    Good luck and have fun working with your horse.
         
        10-13-2009, 02:34 PM
      #28
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alicia    
    I will be training a young rescue horse soon. What I have done is I have researched as many NH trainers I have heard of (Parelli, John Lyons, Jay Ojay,Clint Anderson, are a few that I can think of off the top of my head) I check them out on line and on utube. I take a little of everyone for what works for me and what will work for the horse. No one know everything about everything. One technique will work for one horse and not for another. Use what you feel comfortable with with your personality and your horses. Be consistent, clear, patient, repitious and run everything in your mind so you know what you want before you ask it from your horse. I don't think one trainer will have it all - they are just useing what works for them, and we can take it as a guide line.
    Good luck and have fun working with your horse.
    It's a great thing do take a little bit of each trainer and build your own program based on your individual horses needs.
         
        10-16-2009, 08:12 PM
      #29
    Weanling
    Thanks fehgroundranch.
         
        10-17-2009, 08:28 PM
      #30
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FehrGroundRanch    
    It's a great thing do take a little bit of each trainer and build your own program based on your individual horses needs.
    Ditto to this
         

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