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Desensitization....essential or abuse?

7K views 34 replies 28 participants last post by  Palomine 
#1 ·
I'm posing this question because all my life, I assumed that desensitizing or "sacking out" was an acceptable facet of training. This summer I apprenticed under a trainer that said that desensitization was unacceptable. She told me that when you sack out a horse you are actually numbing them out. They do not learn to trust you and they fade back into their "survival brain." Sacking out can actually harm your relationship with your horse. She believes that your horse should trust you enough to where you can do literally ANYTHING to and around your horse, and their trust will override their wary instincts. She also says you can't desensitize your horse to EVERYTHING they could EVER encounter that would be scary, so its pretty much a waste of time to begin with.

I respect this point of view, but I still see the merit in desensitization training if done properly.

My question is: do you believe that sacking out is an acceptable outlet for getting your horse used to new and scary situations/objects/whatever?
 
#3 ·
Well, I don't think experimenting with a young or nervous horse by showing them 'scary' things aren't so scary is necessarily going to put them in survival mode. The only thing I've ever heard of to do that would be to throw them (or tie a rope around them and throw them on the ground). And that is incredibly wrong.

Waving a plastic bag or whathaveyou? Nah. It's not harmful.

Now, it can be if you waste too much time with it, simply because you'd be concentrating on something not as important as many other things in training. Your trainer is right - you will NEVER desensitize them to everything they could ever find scary. A horse that isn't scared of a plastic bag might jump out of his skin at the littlest things you never thought about.

But I can't say that it's horribly damaging to a horse, unless they are literally terrorized with some object they are fearful of.
 
#4 ·
Desensitizing is a necessary part of training. I train horses for other people who expect results in 30 or 60 days. I don't have time to spend creating a bond and it wouldn't matter if I did, because when the horse went home, they wouldn't be bonded with the owner.

I guess the best example is my Mustang Dobe. I had to sack him out for everything when he was a greenie and do it extensively. Yet, he has never had a withdrawn or numb moment. He still has just as much spirit as when we started. IMHO, sacking out not only teaches a horse that you aren't going to let anything hurt them, it also teaches them how to react to fear. I work hard to teach every horse I ride to simply freeze when they get spooked as opposed to spinning and bolting like their nature tells them to do. I couldn't do that without desensitizing them.

The most important thing is to only do as much desensitizing work as that individual horse needs. If you really overdo it, yes, it can cause them to be sullen. That is part of the problem with a lot of the big name NH trainers is that most of their program is desensitizing and it is constant and repetitive. That's why we see so many of those horses who look bored out of their minds.

Just like everything else done in training; done correctly and in moderation, it is an invaluable tool. Done wrong or excessively, it can be detrimental to the horse.
 
#6 ·
I think it depends very much on how it is done and what goals you have in mind when you do it.

If you wish to desensitize in order to show a horse that a so called 'scary' object or situation is actually not threatening and show them they will survive, it teaches them to assess the situation rather than reacting blindly with fear. If you desensitize in order to teach them to ignore stimuli then yes, there is potential for creating a zombie like creature.
 
#7 ·
It can be over done.

The handler needs to realize when the horse is TRULY afraid and not simply reacting. Previous owner of my 24 year old gelding discovered he was scared of plastic bags. Instead of a give and take approach, he hopped on with a bag containing empty soda cans. The poor horse had a melt down.

It's been nearly 15 years and I still need to be cautious when someone has a plastic bag. I have been able to work him through taking my hat on and off or having someone hand me something while I am sitting on him.

Just like some folks are scared of spiders or snakes, being alone or having the power go out - to those of us not scared - it seems silly - BUT we need to be understanding to those very real fears. (horse or human)
 
#8 ·
I totally agree with smrobs that its more about teaching them how to react to fear. You can't desensitize them to everything. Sure, rubbing them down with plastic bags is great...at home...in the arena...but when you get out on a trail and a plastic bag blows across...a horse that is afraid of plastic bags isn't going to have the thought process "Oh she showed me at home that plastic bags are ok...this one is plastic so its OKAY!"

With all the spookers I have dealt with, my goal is not to eliminate the spook. Its to show them that its okay to be afraid...its NOT okay to bolt-freak-spin etc. When you shed that 'im gonna show him that the world isn't scary' mindset and focus on the reaction...you get further, faster.

I don't think that sacking out is abusive if done in moderation. Its actually a good tool to find out just exactly what sets a horse off.
 
#10 ·
I agree with teaching them how to react as opposed to just making them 'not scared of this, this and that'. My trainer mentioned to me that the first thing she does when she is training a young horse is to teach them to not immediately book it for the hills when something startles them, but to spook in place.

You know, basically how to keep their cool.
 
#11 ·
I'm not sure exactly how one would go about training a horse without desensitizing to some degree and in some manner... :?

I agree with the others. Done correctly and balanced with correct "sensitizing" exercises, no problem. I have seen horses who have been over-desensitized and were the most dull things that you can imagine... no forward at all, refused to move off of the leg, etc.

I aim for no spook, but awareness and a light willingness to respond to my aids on the ground and under saddle. Desensitization has served me well. :wink:
 
#12 ·
I dont htink that trainer really understand desensitizing. or maybe she just thinks it something different.
I think its amazing, i use it to help my horse trust me, and understand that anything i am near is nothing to be scared of and she should trust that if i put something near her, or ask her to go near something, it will not hurt her.
I use it to build on my horses relationship with me, showing her i am the leader and i will keep her safe from anything she thinks is scary... the result? when she sees something new that most other horses are spooking at? she snorts and arches her neck, but follows me towards it.
I also thinks its good if you tap the horse with the whip, and they start getting over-scared of it, then you just rub it all over them and make them realize just because it touches them, it doesnt hurt.
If all you try to do when you desensitze is to keep the horse from being scared of a tarp or something... theres so much more you both could get out of it. (I dont mean anyone in specific when i say 'you')
 
#13 ·
I'm posing this question because all my life, I assumed that desensitizing or "sacking out" was an acceptable facet of training. This summer I apprenticed under a trainer that said that desensitization was unacceptable. She told me that when you sack out a horse you are actually numbing them out. They do not learn to trust you and they fade back into their "survival brain." Sacking out can actually harm your relationship with your horse. She believes that your horse should trust you enough to where you can do literally ANYTHING to and around your horse, and their trust will override their wary instincts. She also says you can't desensitize your horse to EVERYTHING they could EVER encounter that would be scary, so its pretty much a waste of time to begin with.

I respect this point of view, but I still see the merit in desensitization training if done properly.

My question is: do you believe that sacking out is an acceptable outlet for getting your horse used to new and scary situations/objects/whatever?
The point of sacking out a horse is to make them less dangerous. If a piece of paper blows across the trail, I would much rather be on a horse that will spook in place, rather than another that does a 180 and gallops full speed back to the trailer.

And yes, there is no way that you could desesitize your horse to every horse eating monster out there, but the more they are used to, the less likely you will find yourself in a sticky situation.

Every horse owner has their opinion on every training technique in the book, hers just happens to be negative twoards sacking out.
 
#14 ·
Desensitizing is only a bad thing when it is not followed with sensitizing. That is when you get the zombie horses that someone else refered to. That is what leads to horses not following leg queues and being lazy over all. You don't want horses so desensitized to your training tools that they totally begin to ignore them. You want them to stand quietly when your body language tells them to, and to move when your body language tells them to. They should learn the difference of when you want them to stand and when you want them to move off pressure. That is the key to sensitize/desensitize, both are necessary and they even each other out.
 
#15 ·
Wow. Thanks for all the responses you guys! The trainer had attempted to drill the belief that "desensitization is abuse" from the beginning of the summer. I'm glad that I can cling to my beliefs knowing that there is no harm when practicing it responsibly. Given, the entire apprenticeship was more of a spirit breaker than an enriching learning experience sooo.....
 
#18 ·
I like to introduce my horses to as many things as possible. Not so much to desensitize them to things but just get them to know that different things are not going to eat them. The more they realize this the less it takes next time.

I do not spend a lot of time doing it for the simple fact that there is no way to do everything. I just do enough to get the idea into their heads. Here is an example that no matter how much you think you have covered things it can and does still come back to bit you at times. I have a mare who has been hauled extensively. She is shown in a lot of different placed. When we show her in NRCHA shows they will put tarps up to keep the cattle from jumping through the fence. She has no problems with the tarps flapping in the wind on the fence. Now take that same trap and lay it flat on the ground. Now it becomes a horse eating trap. I just took a trap put it on the ground and put her hay on it. If she wanted her hay she had to walk on the trap. Took about 30 min she was fine after that. Then she discovered horse eating carts. She really did not like those things. Took about 3 shows and she got over it. The more things that scare her and she gets over the faster she gets over something the next time. Cattle in the pen next to her scary cattle in the same pen with her not scary. GO figure.

It is really funny what will and will not scare them. There is no way to get them over everything.

I have one mare who is not scared of anything which I can say is not a good thing either.
 
#20 ·
I've done desensitizing in the traditional ways. But I talked with a trainer one day who told me I was going about it all wrong. And when he explained, it made perfect sense. He said not to introduce things to your horse, but to be introduced together as a team.
For example, instead of taking a plastic bag to the horse, before hand, you would tie the plastic bag somewhere and walk your horse up to it so you are both trusting each other to proceed. That way, it isn't YOU that is introducing all the scary, annoying stuff that makes them uncomfortable. Instead, you become the comforter and the trusted leader. No bad associations.
 
#21 ·
^^^Off topic for a moment, BackInTheSaddleAgain, I love your signature, and agree with it whole heartedly. Now, back on topic. As she suggested Desensitizing can also be done as she described it, and for some things it is best done that way. It works even faster if you ask a horse to follow something that it is afraid of, from a distance of course, and gradually work your way closer to it. This method works great for tractors, cars, trucks, pretty much vehicle of any sort. It could also work with the plastic bag, if you could get a friend to walk around waving one around long enough.

I think basically the horse looks at the object as something that the horse is forcing to move, like in the herd hierarchy, it is higher in the pecking order than the object. So they get closer and closer to the object without much pressure from you, they will basically overcome their fear of the object on their own. When I can get reliable help, this is the method that I prefer to use, now granted I can't get my horse to chase every horse eating monster, and I prefer to do this exercise outside of their pasture, but I still do some of the normal desensitizing in addition to this type. And I'll tell you why I bring the plastic bag to the horse instead of tying it to something and leading the horse over. I want my horse to understand that it can trust me and anything I bring near it. I think leading a horse to something and taking the horse something teaches two different lessons. Leading the horse to something teaches the horse that you will not lead it into harm's way. Taking the horse something teaches the horse that you will not put something on it that will put it into harm's way.
 
#22 ·
When Jack and I come across something he shies from, I just walk him up to it, mounted or not, and let him sniff it. If I'm on the ground I roll it around if I can, let him see it from all angles. He seems to have some vision impairment in his right eye, so he can be more prone to wariness on that side.
 
#23 ·
I understand what the other person is saying but with my expirience it really depends on the trainer, horse, and how it is gone about. When desensitizing your horse you have to show them what they are scared about or what they could face out riding but you have to end the session with them having confidence. When the horse has a good trainer or horseperson leading them through the experience and nothing happens to the horse when facing their fear they will trust the handler because they did not lead them into danger- in the end they should associate you with security and to trust your judgement as their trainer... hopes this helps :)
 
#25 ·
I agree with many previous posters- desensitization, which I would rather call familiarization, should be introducing a horse to many different potentially scary things so they have a chance to get comfortable with the idea that those things, and by extension, other new and/or potentially scary things MIGHT NOT actually be horse eating monsters. If you can get them thinking there's a chance that the monster might not eat them, then you have a leg to stand on when you tell them it's fine and to walk on. It's basically just getting them to pause a moment in the see-startle-panic-bolt cycle for you to get a word in edgewise until the horse has enough life/training experience to know himself that those things aren't scary on his own.

Painted Fury has the following thing dead-on too. I did that ONCE with a family that was on bicycles (the horror!) and my horse went from spin and bolt into 5 foot tall sorghum to 'I don't like it, but I'll just snort and blow about it.'
 
#26 ·
Desensitizing to some extent has it's place but it has more to do with the horse accepting the owner's leadership. In the herd, one horse keeps an eye out. The others have only to watch that horse. If he spooks, then the others will immediately follow suit. No one breaks rank and spooks on it's own. Having various horses do so would have the herd on edge all the time. As we handle horses we need to establish that we are the alpha horse, if we don't react, neither should the horse. A difficult case responded very well to clicker training for the dreaded plastic bags. If his feet didn't move he was rewarded. Because he got over his fear of the bags, it helped him deal with other things as well. Now with anything unexpected he looks to me instead of reacting.
 
#27 ·
I don’t necessarily sack out a horse as a major part of training, though if I’m using particular things to handle the horse, like a halter, a lead rope, a lariat, saddle, saddle pad etc, then I will let them get used to that. When I first learned to train horses, the good old Ozzy way (there’s nothing god about it in my opinion) I was taught to bag out a horse (sack out) by getting an old hessian feed bag, or an old saddle blanket, and gently whack the horse all over with it. Yet the horses I did that way, well they weren’t much good. After I learned how to do it properly, I stopped bothering doing it as a main thing. I get them used to what I need them used to in order to train them, I get them so they will accept me handling every part of their body, the rest comes with respect, trust and time, and the trainer being dead calm through everything. Having said that though I wouldn’t call sacking a horse out abuse, not by the wildest stretch of imagination.
A case in point would be the horse I’m riding in that picture to the left there <<<<. I never sacked her out, and was taking her out to do some lunging around some obstacles. I had to walk her between my uncle’s workshop and his truck, which he had the cab tipped up on, and was on top of the engine of, trying to do some mechanical work, at the time. Just as I was going by my uncle dropped a spanner and started swearing. The horse crapped herself and leaped away from the truck, as she landed the radio in the shed had the Morse code beeps of the news blast out, the horse spun round and leaped back at the truck with my uncle swearing. The whole time I stood calmly and just waited for her. She spun round back to me and stood facing me with her head down near my belly or chest chewing and relaxed, all of it happened in the space of half a second, and each time she went to take off she was watching me to see what I would do, I just stood there and waited for her to chill out, and she did; and she has been dead calm ever since. She is in no way dull or withdrawn and she isn’t bothered by much anymore, as long as I’m not.
So, I probably wouldn’t agree with your trainer saying sacking a horse out is a bad thing, though I would agree, to a degree, that you will never be able to desensitise them to everything they might be afraid of. I’d think of sacking out a horse as one of a number of tools you might have in your bag of tricks to train a horse, you can pull it out if you need it. The more important thing in my opinion is getting the horse’s respect and demonstrating to it that you are worth trusting by giving it a good and calm reliable leader it can follow. I you stay calm, even if the horse is about to blow, it will come round.
 
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