The difference? - Page 3
 
 

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The difference?

This is a discussion on The difference? within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Myler parelli bit gag
  • Myler cradle bit

 
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    10-10-2009, 07:31 PM
  #21
Started
Appylover, for your first question, the difference is that the Myler combo bit has a gag action where the cradle bridle does not. The rings on the Myler one are set one below the other, like in the Wonder Bit, where on the cradle the small ring is actually set inside the big ring not creating a gag like effect.

For your second question, Parelli has 3 mouthpieces to choose from based on the horse's Horsenality, which is based on how much tongue contact the horse does or does not like. Some horses need tongue contact, which is what the C1 is for. Some horses need a little tongue relief, but not totally, which is the C2. Some horses hate tongue contact which is what the C3 is for, to give the horse ultimate tongue relief. By the time the horse and rider are ready for the cradle, it won't matter whether it's the C1, C2 or C3 mouthpiece because the horse is already prepared for contact.....the rider will just pick which mouthpiece best suits their horse's needs.

For your last question, the cradle wasn't designed to be a leverage device. When you attach the reins to the small ring you do get more 'lift' but it's not your typical leverage, if that makes sense.....when attached to the small ring the bit is activated less and a lot of horses actually like the small ring setting better, my horse being one of them.
     
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    10-10-2009, 07:32 PM
  #22
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by appylover31803    
I know that Myler makes the cradle bits for parelli, so can I ask what the difference is between the C1 cradle bit and any low port myler bit? (Though myler calls it a combination bit Toklat - Horse Tack - Saddle Pads - Horse Riding ApparelCombo Bits Use)

And Myler categorizes the bits differently (with ports) than Parelli does
Toklat - Horse Tack - Saddle Pads - Horse Riding ApparelMyler Selecting a Bit
Particullarly the bits in level 2-3 as opposed to the C2 and C3

I'd just hate for someone to put a C3/Level 3 bit in a horse's mouth when they are not any these:
Horse considered broke or finished;
Willing to obey commands
Relaxed at the poll
Possesses advanced skills; works well off seat, legs and hands

I know the bit is only as harsh as the hands of the rider, but I believe that Myler has these levels for a reason.

And one more question.. wouldn't you consider the cradle bits leverage bits since the reins are attached to a different place than the headstall is? And the fact that you can have the reins fixed?
The only difference is the price tag.
     
    10-10-2009, 07:35 PM
  #23
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
NO it is not. Is an advertising ploy by a master of advertising. If you are looking for a performance horse that bit would be the last thing you would use. For one it is an illegal bit so you can not use it to show so why train with it. That bit will give you no more finesse then any other bit. Finesse dose not come from the bit it comes from a rider who understands the correct way to ask and the right time to reward the horse for what you are asking. No gimmicks no high priced junk that you can get for less then 1/2 that price.

I have nothing against NH. What I do not like is people like Parreli who get people thinking they need all the high priced crap to get a horse to work and be a willing partner.
No, finesse doesn't come from a bit, and I never said it did, HOWEVER like I said, the tools you use to help your horse understand better are very important.....the right tools can make all the difference in the performance of the horse.
     
    10-10-2009, 07:42 PM
  #24
Trained
I do not care what tool you put on a horse if YOU do not understand the correct way to ask and the correct time to release the tool will make no difference. I can get my horses to do anything and everything with out paying out all that money on that type of stuff. Now I do use myler bits and always will. They are well worth the money paid. However if I wanted I can put a $10 bit in my mares mouth and get the same results. I choose to use the Mylar b/c they are a better bit and the horse likes them better. However it is not the bit that makes the difference. Plus the better bits like the Mylar last longer and no not pinch and such.
     
    10-10-2009, 07:45 PM
  #25
Started
If a horse is tossing his head with the bit, for example, and there are no physical issues causing it, usually when you change the bit to give him more tongue relief the behavior goes away. So yes, a bit can make a difference.
     
    10-10-2009, 07:55 PM
  #26
Green Broke
^ I 100% agree with that ;)
     
    10-10-2009, 08:08 PM
  #27
Trained
Yes a bit can make a difference if a horse need something like Tongue relief. I have one like that. However changing a bit to give him that relief dose nothing past that. Different bit will give you a faster response with less movement of your hand. However if you do not know when to move your hand or move it back the bit dose no good. Some horses will like some bits better then others then there are horses who do not care what bit is in their mouth. I have several horses in that category.

My point is that a bit will not make a horse work better if the rider dose not know how to use it or when to give relief or how to ask. Finesse comes from that not the bit.

Also to pay more b/c someone puts a name on something is not a reason to buy it. You can find the same thing for less money. Those Cradle bits that Parreli sells is a good example.
     
    10-10-2009, 10:25 PM
  #28
Started
Well whatever, you aren't changing my mind on the subject, and I'm not changing yours, not that I'm trying anyway. I let my horse tell me if I'm doing things right and if I'm using the right tools, and so far he's telling me I'm doing a good job and he's comfortable, happy and confident :)
     
    10-11-2009, 07:48 AM
  #29
Weanling
Nope, I'm still not buying it. Everything that you are saying sounds like it is coming off their FAQ site where they lay everything out in what they want people to read so they don't actually have to think. Common sense would tell me that the reason that the horse is so light is because of the leverage the bridle is giving. Its like sticking your horses entire head in a vice. When you do that with a horse that has had it drilled into their head to come off of pressure, then yeah, you are going to get extreme lightness with minimal pressure from the person. That is why people use combination bits on game horses and jumpers, for the leverage that they provide. I have yet to see a Parelli horse with good, honest movement. The last time I saw a video with Remmer in it, he looked dead lame. Obedience and softness only mask physical imbalances.
     
    10-11-2009, 12:03 PM
  #30
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
NO it is not. Is an advertising ploy by a master of advertising. If you are looking for a performance horse that bit would be the last thing you would use. For one it is an illegal bit so you can not use it to show so why train with it. That bit will give you no more finesse then any other bit. Finesse dose not come from the bit it comes from a rider who understands the correct way to ask and the right time to reward the horse for what you are asking. No gimmicks no high priced junk that you can get for less then 1/2 that price.

I have nothing against NH. What I do not like is people like Parreli who get people thinking they need all the high priced crap to get a horse to work and be a willing partner.
I like you.
I do agree, if you're looking for competition, this is not the bit/bridle to do it in. I always encourage people to use the exact equipment at home that they're going to use in the show ring. If you're just pleasure riding, it doesn't matter.
I also agree that a bit does no more to finesse a horse than your boots, it's all in the rider.
Parelli is a master genius of marketing. He has designed a human-attribute "hrosenality" system that EVERY owner can see their horse being. I don't care who you are, if you want to believe in that system, you CAN make your horse fit into the horsenality system. Just like if a person is reading a personality profile, and they see certain attributes that are mentioned, they go "aha! I'm this!" when really they don't fit, but they've seen one or two atrributes that "fit" even if the rest don't. It's a "want to be included" feeling or a "trying to figure things out the easy way" thing.


Anyways, after all that blabbing, here is my feeling:
There are a lot worse things out there than a "Parelli Cradle bit." From all I can see, they only offer a Baucher-type snaffle. They don't get into curbs or twisted wires or rawhide nosebands, so ... from what I can see, the bits they encourage their riders to use are all very mild bits.
Now, what I don't like is the fact that they again market these bits to every horse. Not ever horse is going to like all that pressure; it's quite an intricate set-up they have! Not every horse is going to like a boucher cheek. Not every horse is going to like the nosepiece or chinstrap.

If a person wants to spend their hard-earned money... go for it. I'm just glad they aren't sticking this: http://www.jwcinc.net/1174886746/bits/251072.jpg in their horse's mouth.


Funny story: when I was searching for the cradle bits just now on the Parelli website, I first typed "Parelli.con" - Freudian slip of the fingers?
     

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