Does this look dangerous to you? Thoughts! - Page 4

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Does this look dangerous to you? Thoughts!

This is a discussion on Does this look dangerous to you? Thoughts! within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

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    09-02-2013, 12:50 AM
I didn't watch the video. For some reason it wouldn't play. Anyway a general rule I go by is" if you have to ask if something is safe or not, it probably isn't " those little warning bells going off in your head are there for a reason and if more people listened to them I would probably be out of a job.
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    09-02-2013, 09:39 AM
I watched the video. It is very clear that she is the one in control at all times. At no point is she in any danger from him - he very clearly respects her boundaries, and she is very very definitely the dominant one in the relationship.

As far as the worry that others will see this and copy it, what poppycock. If people are ready to go ahead and copy something they see on youtube, with no preparation or any sort of training, then sorry, you can't blame the person who posted the video. That is just ridiculous. What happened to being responsible for your own actions???
    09-02-2013, 10:02 AM
Super Moderator
Originally Posted by Chiilaa    
...What happened to being responsible for your own actions???
and what about social responsibility?

Of course people copy others and every thing we do can have an impact on others and being aware of that is having a sense of social responsibility.

Be responsible of your actions but do not deny they impact upon others.
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    09-02-2013, 10:10 AM
Not denying that they impact. But if you watched someone drive a car, then jumped in one and drove it without learning how first, is it the fault of the person in the video if you end up wrecking it and breaking your legs?

Social responsibility does not mean we need to temper our actions for fear that people will copy them. It means that we should not act if it will harm others. There is a line of difference between those two things. We cannot live our lives in constant fear that someone will see what we do, copy it, and hurt themselves. It is simply putting the responsibility on the wrong party.
    09-02-2013, 10:38 AM
Societal responsibility includes not selling instructional DVDs to anyone with a credit card teaching how to do dangerous things. Heck, if you buy coffee in a lot of stores, the cup will have a warning about the danger of hot coffee. And most people already have lots of experience with hot liquids!

There are many people who have no clue about the dangers involved in being around horses. Even among those with some horse experience, it seems few understand how subtle horses are, or how much training them depends on understanding body language and apply & releasing pressure at just the right moment. I think all horse training DVDs ought to include a warning - not by law, but due to a concern for others - that training a horse requires precise timing and understanding of the horse's body language, and should not be attempted by someone new to horses.

And if your YouTube video starts getting a lot of comments about how you have a great bond that keeps you safe with your horse, then I think any RESPONSIBLE person should reply:

"I bond with horses AFTER training. I ride and handle horses based on TRAINING. I don't 'ride the bond'! Horses are not humans, and they will not obey you because they enjoy your company. And it isn't fair to the horse to pretend otherwise."

Legally, I think she ought to be able to post her YouTube videos and sell her DVDs. Personally, I have no respect for her as a member of society. I hope she will become more responsible with age.
    09-02-2013, 11:35 AM
Super Moderator
Originally Posted by Chiilaa    

Social responsibility does not mean we need to temper our actions for fear that people will copy them..

Actual it can mean exactly that. If a teen hero for example, suddenly starts posting videos of how great it is to, say, take drugs....they are not being socially responsible and therefore there is a need to temper our actions and consider how it affects others.

Yes do what you like in private and don't temper you actions as they only affect you, but if you make a public video then you take on a certain level of social responsibility for your actions and their consequences.
    09-02-2013, 11:40 AM
Originally Posted by Arizahn    
T'Khasi wouldn't interact with a human like that. He has the opinion that when the humans are in the field with you, you stand quietly or walk slowly... I am inclined to agree with him! But then I have epilepsy, so it is very important that my horse be aware of safe boundaries. If I keel over next to him, I want him to react by either staying still or moving slowly away, iyswim. That is what I am aiming for anyway Big ask, but it is my goal.
It's not that big to ask! :) My brother has - well had he just recently went off the meds - absence seizures. He'd space off and if he was on a horse would fall off. My mare would sense it when he was on her (the few times he rides) and would stop. She would counter balance with him on her if he started to slip and if he did fall off park out over top of him. One time she actually laid down so he didn't have far to fall. When he rode our flighty gelding he had a seizure and that horse (who does not have the 'stop' mentality of my mare) stood stock still and craned his head around to always be in contact with my brothers toes. Horses in my experience, are very good about that and seem to know the difference.

As for the comments about her video inspiring novices to do things outside their task range: I'm of the opinion that you should know your limits. I'm not going to go and watch a few puissance (sp?) videos on youtube, then go ride my inexperience horse over the biggest jump I can find. Common sense is a necessity of life. People who watch and are inexperience need to think that yes it might be safe because of the 'bond' that they share but they need to realize that to get the respect that she has has taken potentially years to develop and cultivate. You can't just go and let a yearling run over top of you because some girl on Youtube did. (I'm not using that example in reference to the video in this topic)
    09-02-2013, 11:44 AM
Wow, so for example, some famous barrel racer posts a video of herself riding a winning run and some teenager decides to go jump on their pony and do the same and gets rolled on by their pony, then it's because the barrel racer posted a video on YT?

Gee, when people and adults of children actually decide its ok to take responsibility for their actions and teach their children some common sense then these kind of discussions wouldn't happen.

If Alicia Burton's horse rears and lands in her head I'm sure she's not gong to blame anyone else but herself.

I guess the guys who made the movie Black Beauty ought to edit out the rearing scenes too?

All I have to say is 'own it'.
    09-02-2013, 12:07 PM
Green Broke
I guess if you were training a horse to do tricks or perform there would be a point to this, but I just don't get liberty play. She seems in control of the situation though. Personally I wouldn't train my horse to do that.
As far as the danger, I jumped out of a tree onto my pony when I was kid because I saw it on the Lone Ranger. Pretty sure my mom never thought about the tv show when she spanked me for doing something so stupid.
    09-02-2013, 01:31 PM
Super Moderator
I am inclined to think that maybe the people who post these videos and also claim to be trainers/instructors shouldn't also add some text saying that these sort of things shouldn't be attempted by anyone that doesn't have correct training or real experience?
I have no problem with the bareback and bridleless stuff as she does it in a controlled situation but I do worry about the concept of someone having a horse bucking and careering around them in a field - while she is able to command respect (in the same way as Hempfling does by being a very strong leader) a lot of people might not realize how much work goes into achieving this and a lot of people will never achieve that level of respect from a horse no matter how long they try.
This is a video that I find more worrying because I see no disciple at all here and this is someone that is also a very capable rider/handler with a huge following of young people (over 36,000 subscribers) that I expected better of in terms of showing a good example
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