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Does this look dangerous to you? Thoughts!

This is a discussion on Does this look dangerous to you? Thoughts! within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        09-03-2013, 04:32 PM
      #51
    Yearling
    From watching her and her horse's body language in the video, I wouldn't say it's dangerous--or no more so than any horse related activity. Not with her and her horse. From the horse's body language it is very obvious that he respects her; notice that he never rushed up to her, but walked slowly and respectfully up to her when she gave the signal.

    The bad part is that she is posting these videos and other dumb people will try it and get hurt, because they have no clue that a lot of training went into this horse before the girl ever attempted something like what is shown in this video.
         
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        09-03-2013, 04:43 PM
      #52
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BlueSpark    
    yep, sorry, dumb. And for those who commend her riding, a great rider does not make a great trainer, owner or handler. I know a girl who can ride extremely well, but lacks the desire to learn to train or handle properly, so her horses are monsters on the ground.

    I have more respect for people who have responsive, respectful horses and know how to handle them than those who do stupid things with them in an attempt to prove they are the next Alec with their version of the black stallion. These types of videos do nothing but show beginners how to hurt themselves and ruin their horses.

    I agree that not all good riders are good trainers. But, if you read her biography and website, you can learn that she trains all of the horses in her care. It's obvious from her video's that her horses are all well trained. So, I don't know why you are assuming that she is a poor trainer. I would love to have one of the horses she has for sale. I dont' believe she is trying to "prove" anything by playing with her horse. It seems obvious to me in the video that the horse was respectful of her space, and she was in no danger. But, I also understand that not everyone is care-free enough to even attempt such actions with horses, and I don't blame them. I'm sure she took the time to learn the termperment of this horse, gain its trust and respect, and that she has taken the time to set her leadership roles, and boundaries.

    No reason to believe someone is "dumb" just because they attempt/try more than you do. She obviously hasn't sustained any life-threatening injuries in her journey with horses. And besides, people who DON'T play with their horses deal with life-threatening injuries all the time. Even in the most controlled of circumstances...

    Life is short. We all choose what to do with our time here. Her playing with her horses doesn't hurt anyone, and there is no reason to berate her for an innocent decision. If she gets hurt, then that sucks for her. I don't believe that her playing with her horse is any more/less dangerous than a crowd of 12 horses running 45 mph within 1 foot of eachother is...It's all a give and take.
         
        09-03-2013, 04:48 PM
      #53
    Yearling
    So, evidently I create controversial threads without meaning to. LOL
    I honestly didn't think it would be a problem, but judging from the replies- I'm wrong! Though, I must remember, this is the internet!
    Palomine likes this.
         
        09-03-2013, 05:29 PM
      #54
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MsBHavin    
    Teaching a horse to rear is only dangerous if you value your brain bucket.

    I don't know if this video was posted, but this is why you DON"T play with your schmoopie

    Stallion Kicks Girl On Head - YouTube
    Crap. I didn't look at the video until now!!!
    There are so many things wrong going on in that area--loose, barbed wire fencing, garbage like you would see in a junkyard, chairs stacked.
    You can see that this horse is irritated by his ears and body language. He kicked her to say, "stop, this is stupid!"
    Did she survive this?
    I loose lunge with a purpose and a whip. I have baby step goals and I stop when I achieve them to reward my horse, so he realizes the purpose of the lesson.
    I am glad to see stuff like this posted. You never know who is trolling this site.
    Palomine likes this.
         
        09-03-2013, 07:47 PM
      #55
    Green Broke
    BlueSpark, I don't think that people should limit themselves and what they post for fear that other people will mimic them. Take a look at all of the other videos on youtube xD
         
        09-03-2013, 09:34 PM
      #56
    Foal
    There's a huge difference about the first video and the second one (the kick) and the difference is the horse's body language. The first horse looks playful, ears foward, interested in her play and seems to be in a good mood. Plus she has a huge safe distance, which is really important! The second horse is the combination of frustrated horse (because he's just trying to get the treats) with a girl who is encouraging that kind of behavior by giving him treats without even realizing the language of the horse. The horse has is ears pinned back all the time. She's just ignoring it and no safe distance. So yeah, huge difference in the behavior of both horses and people.

    I do trick training with my horse and one thing that makes me really upset is when people find something funny that the horse is doing without even realizing what is really happening. Just like in that video. The girl in the second video finds really funny that the horse is jumping behind her and following her around, woww, really nice, what a shame she learnt her lesson in the worst way possible. People HAVE to pay attention to horses body language because that's the only way they have to communicate with us and tell us if there's something wrong or right.

    So yeah, first video is totally fine for me, she seems she knows what she's doing, safe distance, happy horse, it's just a play in the padock :) Second video, hmmm, what a complete disaster!
         
        09-04-2013, 12:10 AM
      #57
    Yearling
    I have a lot of respect for the girl as a trainer and rider. I think I would believe that people can record and show whatever they want. It looks like she is well in control of the horse and situation.

    Okay maybe she has training videos, now I haven't watched those but it mostly looks like she starts to give ideas into tackless riding. If she is encouraging beginners and non-professionals to run around in the pasture with their horse...yes there are going to be tons more incidents like the second 'stallion kicks....' video. I didn't really get that she was teaching that.

    People need to learn to think for themselves. I think a problem with society is we need to stop requiring rules and censorship to show them how to live and not get themselves killed. Idols do what they will, instead of telling them they can't do that because they are an idol we need to teach people to stop idolizing dangerous and destructive behavior. People want to be guided, and its coming to a point where they have to be guided.
         
        09-04-2013, 01:28 AM
      #58
    Yearling
    Instead of wondering is it right or is it wrong, it's possible that there are just a certain rare type of horse person who can utilize this level of expression in the horse or -should- do so! There's a world of difference between the first video and the one of the girl who got kicked - but these things aren't always so readily obvious! It's probably fair to say that the majority of horses are better off just being calm and controllable when they're around people.
    bsms and Dustbunny like this.
         
        09-04-2013, 04:51 PM
      #59
    Green Broke
    In the first video I see a horse that is bordering on the "up yours" attitude.

    He turns away from her at several points and is giving little bucks, and the rears are starting at point where she is not directing them at times too. Somewhere between 16 and 24 seconds in.

    And if you watch his ears when he is chasing her? And make no mistake that is how he is viewing it, he is not happy happy happy but bordering on ticked off. Snaking head he gives shows that too.

    When she has her eyes on him and is stopped, he is more focused then and the "up yours" attitude has toned down then.

    This is not a give and take in play, it cannot be because to horses? Playing means kicking out at each other, and both horses well within range too, or rearing and kicking out as they switch ends.

    Are there people who can get by with things that most of us wouldn't try? Of course. Does that mean they are more gifted in their "walk with the horsies"?

    Not usually. Just means they haven't had their teeth knocked down their throats yet.

    To me, unless you are a circus trainer with a liberty act? All of this is foolishness and a good way to end up dead. Or worse. A quad.

    And doing this type of thing ESPECIALLY with a stallion? Makes newbies think that my horse can be a stallion and is not dangerous at all...I can run and play with him like a Lab in the fields.....lalalala....when the reality is, for those of us that have handled stallions any, they can get you in a heartbeat, and the humans usually don't fare well in that encounter at all.

    And this is less a bond, than it is liberty training. That is the real problem the search for the BOND that new horse owners expect to have, and that think this is the way to get it, instead of learning the basics of horse handling, and behavior.
    xlionesss, BlueSpark and rookie like this.
         
        09-04-2013, 04:52 PM
      #60
    Showing
    For me, it's not so much about just the playing or the tricks aspect of it. I have the same problem with her that I have with most of the box-set clinicians and youtube trainers.

    Novice horse owners/riders/handlers should not be encouraged to try any sort of training on their own because 99% of the time, it ends badly for everyone involved. It ends especially bad for the horse because his ignorant owner taught him something "fun" that turned out to be dangerous like playing on the ground or rearing/laying down under saddle.

    Folks who don't already have the knowledge/ability need to work with a good trainer who does have the knowledge/ability. Not only will that minimize risk to the person, but it gives the horse the best chance to actually have a life instead of being sent to the packer because he's "dangerous".
    flytobecat, Palomine and xlionesss like this.
         

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